Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Ms Licken is proposing that the Minister believes the organisation should be as open as possible.

I came to this meeting with an open mind. To be fair, up to now, Mr. Bakhurst has done a reasonably good job. However, this is a pivotal moment for him. In the past hour, I have changed my stance on the basis of the response Mr. Bakhurst gave this morning to the Chair at the very end of the contribution. The Chair said he would compel this document and we have articulated why it is so important. Mr. Bakhurst said, "We will stand ready for that." That is too confrontational. The second thing Mr. Bakhurst said is that he would like to see our legal advice. This is not a two-way relationship. It is a two-way relationship in that we should be courteous, respect and support each other. However, it is not a two-way relationship in the sense that Mr. Bakhurst gets to see our legal advice. He does not because this is the Oireachtas. We are the elected representatives. We are the people who vote to decide whether we give you money. The taxpayers are watching this so Mr. Bakhurst does not get to see our legal advice. He should withdraw that comment. This is a pivotal moment for him. There is a moral issue here, which my colleagues have articulated better than I can. If we end up in a scenario whereby we have to compel this and it could end up in the courts, Mr. Bakhurst's position will not be tenable. I am sorry; I actually think he had been doing a good job up until now. We are taking a break soon. We are taking a break soon; he needs to reflect during the break. I do not believe in a scenario where he should be in and out of this committee every couple of months. I actually wanted it to end today, but it cannot end until this note is provided. The worries and concerns of this committee and the people watching are so serious that if Mr. Bakhurst does not provide this note, he, Mr Lynch and others will have serious issues into the future

Mr. Bakhurst can respond to that and the next question. I want a breakdown of the roles where people were given voluntary redundancy. Even with the legal advice that he has been given, I believe he can do that for us. I read the legal advice last night and I find it ridiculous. We are all paid by the taxpayer. The people of County Tipperary elect me and they are my bosses but I am paid by the Oireachtas. Can I go to my Oireachtas and ask that what I am paid not be made public? That does not wash

On 29 June, the chairperson said she would provide the salaries of the top 100 earners in RTÉ. I have bad news for Mr. Bakhurst. He reports to the chairperson. She is the most senior person in the organisation. She made a commitment to the committee that she would provide that information. Nothing outranks that. Mr. Bakhurst does not outrank it and any information he gives us subsequently does not outrank that, and she has not withdrawn that. That information has to be provided.

I would like Mr. Bakhurst to respond to the very serious issues regarding the tripartite agreement, the salaries and the pensions.