Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I will start with the question about data controllers on local authorities. I am regularly in contact with the local authorities on this issue and they have not raised this with me, if it is an issue. I will say it to them the next time I am talking to the staff but they have not said to me that they have got an issue with this.

The Deputy mentioned the centre of excellence for circular economy, manufacturing and design and asked could that be in an academic institution, where is it expected that the work, design and research would be done, and have I received a proposal from CIRCULÉIRE on this. I have received a detailed proposal from CIRCULÉIRE of several hundred pages. I have had a briefing as well on the various things that it is proposing to do to cover matters such as education, networking, design, communications, etc. Nothing has been decided. There could be some facilities within academia. It simply has not been decided yet. As for how long it will take to happen, it will happen in the coming months.

The Deputy mentioned the democratisation of this or letting people get involved in the circular economy. The phrase "circular economy" - it is two abstract words together - is a bit intangible. It is much more understandable what the circular economy is when people think about bringing their clothes to a charity shop and buying some other clothes there, going to an alterations shop, going to a shoe shop or getting a laptop fixed. Those kind of activities are quite relatable and understandable to people. We need to be clear in our communications and not use jargon, and make sure that everybody feels that they can take part.

We are aiming on an open goal here because this is not only something for trendy young people who are progressive. My parents' generation say that this is sensible and something they want to go back to. They remember a time when their milk bottles were delivered on an electric float. There was more reuse, efficiency and recycling in society before we developed global manufacturing, etc., and it makes sense to go back to that. There is general widespread public support for it and we should talk about it in a simple and common sense way.

As a matter of interest, I visited Inagh, which is a village in County Clare where Senator Garvey lives, and I was able to buy milk from a farm co-operative in a reusable bottle from a machine that I paid for from a card. That is an example of the circular economy, which has been designed by farmers, is saving them money and cutting out a middle man. That kind of thing is understandable to people.

The Deputy's last question was about the cost of machines for the deposit and return scheme. There is an option if someone has a small shop. For a start, if the shop is under 250 sq m, the owners do not have to take back bottles and cans at all if they do not want to; they can just put up a sign saying where the nearest place is. If they want to take them back manually, they can. They can have a bin bag under the counter and take them in. Obviously, there is an overhead of labour to that.

The machines pay out. There is a handling fee for each one and the design of that handling fee is supposed to be sufficient to pay for the machines.

A grant scheme, however, is in operation for small shops. This allows them to get some money, I think it is €6,000, to put towards the cost of a machine. I understand the range of prices for these machines goes from approximately €12,000 to €200,000. I saw one of the largest supermarkets buying a very large machine. We know these schemes work because they have done so for decades in other countries. We know, therefore, that we can find a working mechanism and a price point that works for everybody. The machines are meant to pay for themselves. We will prime the pump by giving grants to smaller shops, in particular, to get the scheme going. I do not want this to be something where it is necessary to go to the big supermarkets to be served, and I do not think it is going to be like this.