James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome everybody to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice for the next session of our consideration of the general scheme of the criminal justice (legal aid) Bill 2023. Before I welcome our witnesses, I want to declare an interest in that I am a barrister and I have availed of the legal aid scheme in the past. In my opinion, that gives me a greater understanding of proceedings but other people may have different opinions. I wanted to put that on the record at the outset. It is important that we are always transparent about these things.

I welcome Ms Sara Phelan SC, chair of the Bar Council of Ireland; Mr. Seán Guerin SC of the criminal committee of the Bar Council of Ireland; Ms Fiona Ní Chinnéide, director of operations with the Probation Service, who is known to us and has been at this committee before, wearing different hats; Ms Leah McCormack, also of the Probation Service; Ms Caroline Counihan, legal support manager with Safe Ireland, who is also familiar with the committee and has been hosted by us before; Dr. Clíona Saidléar, executive director of Rape Crisis Network Ireland; and Ms Donna Parau, legal director of Rape Crisis Network Ireland, who is also no stranger to these Houses. We also have Mr. Darren Lalor BL, Mr. William Morrin BL, and last but not least, Mr. Simon Donagh of the Irish Criminal Bar Association. We are joined today, as always, by an observer from the Department of Justice who is a standing attendee, and that is Mr. Kevin Condon, who is principal officer in the civil legislation section. They are all very welcome.

In a moment, I will invite the witnesses to deliver their opening statements and I will tell them a little bit about how this committee works. Before I do that, I will give a short overview of privilege. It is important to understand that we adhere to various conventions in these Houses. Witnesses and members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. If their statements are potentially defamatory, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks, and it is imperative that they comply with any such direction if given. I presume witnesses and members will all be very well behaved, so there will be no need for that but it is a point I need to put out there.

How we operate is that we have short opening statements. Some organisations have two spokespersons and some have one. Each organisation gets a short opening statement of three minutes. We find that it works better to allow a short opening statement to set the tone and put initial remarks on the record, and then have a longer time for engagement with the members. We find that is a better format. That is how we do it. We then go to the members, and I have taken a list of indications from the members as to the order in which they wish to want to come in. I will call the members one at a time, and there is a six-minute slot per member for questions and answers. Members can use that time as they see fit. They can deliver a five-and-a-half-minute monologue if they wish to, or they can take 30 seconds for their first question and then have more time for answers. Ultimately, each member has a six-minute slot. We find it works well, and it allows us to get around. The items that witnesses might have liked to have said in their opening statement but did not get a chance to say will inevitably come into focus in the next round of questions. We find that we get through the business of the meeting quite succinctly in that way.

I am going to call on the witnesses in the following order: the Bar Council of Ireland, Safe Ireland, Rape Crisis Network Ireland, Mr. Lalor, the Probation Service and the Irish Criminal Bar Association. It is a three-minute slot, and we have a timer in the corner to keep everybody on time. I ask witnesses to try to adhere to that as far as they can and there will be plenty of time afterwards. We will start with Ms Phelan as chair of the Bar Council of Ireland. She is very welcome to the committee.