Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Cathaoirleach. If nothing else, we should have learned by now that we are the only country, apart from Malta, that does not have a full-time Minister for Defence. You cannot run a Department one day a week or one day a month. It just cannot happen. I would say to Lieutenant Colonel King that this sounds like Groundhog Day, but Groundhog Day was the same every day whereas the situation here is getting worse every time we meet him.

I will briefly touch on the commission's targets. We are told that 95% of the recommendations have been completed but RACO is telling us they are not completed and that they are being discussed or considered or that negotiations are under way. We need to get an accurate figure as to exactly how many of the recommendations have been completed. That would be helpful to the committee.

The second thing I want to talk about is the pension. The Public Service Pensions (Single Scheme and Other Provisions) Act 2012 was introduced in the middle of a financial crisis. Anybody reading the Act will see there were very significant omissions from it and great neglect of special areas, such as the Defence Forces, where people have to retire long before the age of 65. This committee needs to bring the Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands into the discussion on pensions because the pension for Defence Forces personnel is clearly wrong in every way and we are losing people because of that. It is sad to hear Lieutenant Colonel King talking about young officers.

What is the typical rank of a post-2013 officer who is leaving? Do he have any idea where they go after they leave because that is really important?

The issue of conciliation and arbitration has been a thorn in the side of RACO and PDFORRA. Where is conciliation and arbitration now? Has RACO got the level of access and is it getting decisions out of conciliation and arbitration? Whether they are favourable or not is not the issue. Is RACO getting into conciliation and arbitration and getting its voice heard?

The witnesses spoke about allowances. I am a bit confused about allowances. The Cathaoirleach will remember that we visited Haulbowline. We were shown three ratings, all of whom were doing the same job, were of the same rank and were on three different rates of pay, by the captain of one of the ships down there. I understand from a friend of mine that in the CIS section, there are officers working at the same level and doing the same job who are on different rates of pay. I am not sure how that arises and where the fix is. I am sure it is something that has come across RACO's table at some stage.

The chief of staff and the Secretary General appeared before this committee last week and the issue of pay came up. They said that a private soldier on completion of training is on €38,000 per year, which is not bad money for an 18 or 19-year-old. A second lieutenant coming out was on €42,000 per year. It sounded really great and anybody you speak to who heard that would say, "God they're really well paid". Nobody else in the public service of whom I am aware is expected to be available 24 hours a day seven days a week. That is the first point. It seems that at entry level, pay is not so bad but if you get up to the rank of sergeant, company sergeant, captain or commandant, it appears that the pay is not so great and there is no incentive to stay at that level. Could the witnesses address the issue of pay at that level?

I think we have to compare An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces. Lieutenant Colonel King made the point that when you sign up to the Defence Forces, you sign away a number of your civil rights, one of which is the right to withdraw labour. Deputy Berry has spoken time and again about the need for the Defence Forces to have access to the WRC and the Labour Court. Could Lieutenant Colonel King address that if he feels he can?

Regarding the working time directive, I asked last week if hours were being recorded for members of the Defence Forces and I was told they were. Either they are or are not being recorded or there is a pilot scheme but from talking to people outside the two representative bodies, I am fairly certain that nobody is recording anybody's hours and soldiers feel greatly aggrieved. Lieutenant Colonel King will know well that as the numbers fall, the recurring duties increase, which increases burnout and is the driver for people to get out of the system. Could he address those issues? The witnesses must forgive me as I have to leave as I have another thing on today.

Have the witnesses heard anything about those who are leaving the Defence Forces being treated very badly? Lump sums are not being paid for months and pensions are not coming through. I do not know if the witnesses have heard anything about it but if they have, they might address that. I thank the Cathaoirleach and my colleagues for letting me in.