Mr. Brendan McDonagh:

When we started off, we had a large number of house builder debtors but as the values of houses and land went up, a number of those guys were able to raise money elsewhere and pay off their debts to NAMA. They were able to take the land we hoped we would fund for housing. They were able to get the funding elsewhere to build those houses. That is why we say they would not have been in the position to do that unless we had given them that support earlier in respect of planning to get them shovel ready. As soon as they got the increase in value, they paid off their debt to the taxpayer and, fair dues to them, they moved on elsewhere. That is why we have a different view from that of Mr. McCarthy. We were involved in facilitating the delivery of those houses because-----