Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome our witnesses. Some of the faces are familiar as we worked together in the past. I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me to speak as I am not a member of this committee. I welcome Mr. Ó Coigligh's statement that the Department has nothing to hide. The public needs to hear those words. On page 3 of his presentation, Mr. Ó Coigligh said the implementation steering group will be tasked with working through issues as they arise and making recommendations if further changes to the regulations or guidelines are needed. It is obvious from this presentation this morning that this scheme will evolve. It has to evolve because there are plenty of shortcomings. While I understand that we must have a scheme and must try to get it moving, there are so many areas that need to be addressed. My suggestion is that the voice of the homeowners be included on the implementation steering group. I am not looking for a "Yes" or "No" answer today. I am making it based on everyone's bona fides and the assumption that there is nothing to hide.

We have been listening to the voice of the homeowners for so long now at committee level and at public demonstrations. I do not have mica. I try to understand it. I have been involved in this area for ten years. My neighbours have mica, as do relations. I know some people who are going through trauma but I cannot fully understand what that is until I actually live with it. My suggestion would be to have a voice from the homeowners. Let them decide who the individuals should be on the implementation steering group. The group is very lucky that it has a homeowners liaison officer in John O'Connor, whose credibility among homeowners is very high. He is very sincere and excellent at his job but I also think the group needs the voice of the homeowners. If the group is going to produce reports at six-monthly intervals, that voice must be there.

One of the major failings of this campaign was communication. It did not feel as though the voice of the homeowners was part of the solution. That creates antagonism, bad feeling and a vacuum. Given my brief knowledge as a result of being in various Departments, my fear is that once a box is ticked and a scheme is introduced, the Department is so busy with a range of housing issues it becomes a case of "that bit is done, let us move on". We cannot allow this to happen with this scheme because the scheme is too complex, big, wide, varied and challenging. I ask Mr. Ó Coigligh to ensure the voice of the homeowner is represented on the implementation steering group. Out of respect, which I gained for Mr. Ó Coigligh in the years I worked with him, I will not ask him for an answer today.

It was great because I was speaking to Mr. Verbruggen earlier who told me that Dr. Paul Dunlop is represented on the technical matters steering group. That is very important and that the public know about that as well.

My second question, briefly, concerns the recommendation made today by Engineers Ireland for five to ten engineers to go to each local authority to provide more oversight of the sector. This is a no-brainer and the campaign groups have been calling for this for years. I am not looking for a "Yes" or "No" answer from Mr. Ward or Mr. Kelly today because I know they will say that they will have to bring it back to the council. I ask them to bring that suggestion back to the council. Mr. Ó Coigligh's team is the one which has to pay the money and write the cheques but I believe it would be a prudent and worthwhile suggestion for five to ten engineers to be appointed within the relevant local authorities to provide that much-needed oversight, which was missing.

Finally, Ms Larkin is the messenger here today and this is not a personal criticism of her in any way, because she happens to be the voice here. Eighteen months is too long. It is outrageously long. You must put your feet into the shoes of the homeowner. The biggest fear of the people I have had contact with over the years is to face into another winter. Mica and pyrrhotite homeowners are facing into another winter and we are telling them here today to face into another two winters before that is put to bed. It is not acceptable. The National Standards Authority of Ireland has widened its brief to bring in the Eurocode 6, which is all good and important, together with climatic data from Met Éireann and the impact of freeze-thaw and other climatic conditions. That has nothing to do with sulphur. This particular job needs to be compartmentalised in a shorter timeframe. I know that there are constraints, resource issues and I know where the science must be carried out.

Ms Hone talked this morning about the science having to be right. I completely understand that but if people are expected in good faith to go into a scheme; to take option 2 to 5; to take off their outer leaf and perhaps the inner block might be okay and, fingers crossed, the foundation will be all right that is no way to treat people, especially those who have lived and continue to live this nightmare They completely dread facing into another winter because doing that means that they are thinking of a chimney on a two-storey house and what might happen if it falls on the bison slabs, and what happens when the bison slabs come in on the lower bedroom.

I say to Ms Larkin that to contemplate what it is like for those homeowners, to be telling them here today that we will get this sorted but then to ask these homeowners for a further two winters, morally and in every way that is wrong. This is not a criticism of Ms Larkin, as she is the messenger here today, but I ask her to go back to her colleagues and to the Department to see if there is some way to compartmentalise this piece of work away from the wider work that it also needs to do.