Professor John FitzGerald:

There are a few points there. In Northern Ireland, when talking about the education issue, I would never say "Be like the Republic". I would say "Be like Scotland." Politically it is neutral and Scotland has the lowest early school-leaver problem within the United Kingdom. This is not a Republic versus Northern Ireland issue. It is Northern Ireland and England versus Scotland and the Republic of Ireland. It is just how one frames it.

Mr. Hetherington took up the issue on progression. It is very important. My children went to the local community school. When my eldest daughter left school in the early 1990s only three or four went on to university but by the time the youngest left school, a lot more went on to university. From my eldest daughter's class, I am told that four ended up with PhDs. The institutes of technology in Ireland are important. We from the universities tend to talk about the importance of graduates from universities but the institutes of technology have been hugely important in terms of progression. This is something that was missing in Northern Ireland. Some 50 years ago Northern Ireland universities were much better than those in the Republic but they did not develop an institutes of technology sector in the same way. I worked in Vietnam for more than a decade bringing over delegations to look at what they should learn from Ireland. I have not sent them to universities; I have sent them to the institutes of technology. Progression is important. One of the issues in the book by Vani Borooah and Colin Knox on education in Northern Ireland is that it estimates a 10% Catholic ethos advantage for kids remaining on in school in the secondary school system. They ask whether it is because the schools are better or because the parents have different expectations. Parental expectations are really important. To change that, one needs a system that provides progression in order that older children progress and younger children follow them. It is not a simple solution but there are solutions and it needs to be worked on.

With regard to investment and IDA Ireland, one also needs a political commitment. Deputy Brendan Smith talked about going on delegations and in such a situation, he was important as the political face of it and in talking to people outside. When Ireland turns up selling Ireland, it has a political face and it has IDA Ireland or Enterprise Ireland showing how it can be done. Northern Ireland needs a political face to sell Northern Ireland.

On the point about infrastructure, it has been really frustrating over the past 40 years. I was on the former Northern Ireland Authority for Energy Regulation for four years, from 2002 to 2006. I had to go to Derry on quite a number of occasions. The train took forever. The bus took forever because of the Glenshane Pass. No money was put into that. I am told that it is about to be completed but the Derry-Dublin road is really also an issue for Donegal. I have a son-in-law who needed a visa every time he came to Ireland. He also needed a separate visa when he went to the UK. I could not take my daughter, my son-in-law and my grandchildren to Donegal because he would not go through Northern Ireland. I said "Look, you will not be stopped", but because he had a questionable visa status in the US, he was not prepared to take the risk. There was also the problem of the road. It is really important for Donegal. When one considers Donegal and the economy, higher education in Derry is important to Donegal. The Letterkenny Institute of Technology has been very successful. It is surprising that the institutes of technology have not attracted more students across the Border, that Sligo has not attracted from Enniskillen, and Dundalk from south Down. Until now they have had something that was not available in the North. It is not just about universities. It is actually about the progression from primary school and secondary school, which we have talked about, and the progression at the end of secondary school with students completing their high school education, either with leaving certificates or A-levels, and then the progression. Just because a person has not gone on to university does not mean that he or she will not will end up as a graduate.