Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent) | Oireachtas source

From their point of view and from listening to their experiences, what they are providing is not known; we have hidden it. It is good news and it should be known.

Two issues are coming through clearly. First, we have an attitude within social welfare that if someone even has an opportunity to make a few pounds, straight away, he or she will be punished for that.

My view is that there should be a graduation. If people are in business, they do their first year's work, present their accounts the next year and, by October, present their accounts as to what they did. There is a graduation in reporting depending on whether people are making money; they might be awfully busy but might not be making money. It is important that all current supports, few as they are, are left in position for probably up to three years to see if a business can actually work and if it is making money. If companies are making money, are doing well and are successful, they do not mind at that stage if they lose some of the supports they have. It is about the fear to take that shot to try to do something. Mr. Hennessy's testimony has concerned exactly that. He has been more or less punished for even thinking about doing things and how he would get supports. The supports he needs in his business are different from the supports Mr. McCann needs in his business. It is about how we individualise that support to reach a person and his or her company, which they are trying to sort out.

I agree that the LEOs should be a one-stop shop for people to access information in the regions. It should not just be peripheral information. There should be a pathway or roadmap people can see before they start to see the things they have to do. LEOs would be good at that. We have the model, when we went for gender and women in business. We just have to repeat that model. It is not reinventing any wheel.

I talked to a man this morning who is an amputee. He talked about employment. The bike-to-work scheme, for instance, should be extended to include users of what he called tricycles. They should be able to apply for that scheme as well. He gave me examples of things that are so tunnelled. We do not ask how we can give other people the benefit of having a mode of transport to work that is, first, healthy and, second, gives them the ability to access work when there is no public transport. These are only small things but when we talk to people like Mr. Hennessy and Mr. McCann, we get the sense that it is frustrating that rules and regulations have been corralled into a tunnel and we dare not look over the parapet.

The Departments of Social Protection and Enterprise, Trade and Employment need to get together to have a chat about how best to protect people who are brave enough to make that move to start up a business. Whether they are able-bodied or disabled, it is a big decision. I would like to learn more about the course Professor Cooney is teaching and the model of it, which is great. My only regret is that we did not have this session before we brought in the Department of Social Protection officials - we did not have the representatives reversed around. I am better versed today than I was last week. It is thanks to the witnesses that we are like that. I do not know whether they want to make any comments to me. I do not have questions for them. They have given me, and every other member, all the things I need to start a thought-provoking process to see how we can engage. As was said, it is the politicians who have to change things and not the witnesses. We have to change them. They are telling us how to do that. It is not a big ask. I thank them very much.