Mr. Bill Callanan:

I want to be careful about the suggestion regarding what will happen in other countries, as that may have been misunderstood. I presented on water quality at the same time as the Dutch secured an agreement in the previous 2020 negotiations. Some 20,000 farmers in Holland are in derogation. We have 7,000 to 7,500 farmers in derogation, give or take. Holland is a country the size of Munster with a dairy herd equivalent to us and about double the milk production. The Dutch are way more intensive than anything we would see in Ireland. The water quality in Holland demonstrates that. The limit for nitrates was 50 mg. Mr. Flynn might be able to answer this also. Half of all the waters in Holland exceeded that. We are talking about a situation here where in 70% to 80% of our waters, we have levels of less than 25 mg. We are not comparable with the Dutch in terms of our level of intensity. Their dependence on the derogation was even higher and more economically important to them in terms of that construct. This illustrates the challenge that if we are not delivering in terms of water quality then nobody is safe, if we want to put it like that, in terms of the challenge.

On farmers showing positivity towards the derogation, including the farmer Deputy Flaherty spoke about, that is our experience as well with the agricultural catchments programme and the meetings that are held in that regard. We always hear that the more intensive dairy farmers are the first to turn up and the first to hear what they can do. I agree with what has been said about them as part of the sector. Where I differ, however, is with the view that making a good economic argument to the Commission would sway it from the environmental requirements that are upon us. It will not. I want to be clear on that.

On the engagement with the Commission, one of the points we strongly highlighted was that Ireland has ambitions in terms of forestry, organics, increasing the tillage area and anaerobic digestion. They are the diversification options we have in our climate action plan for agriculture. We clearly identified that if we look at the economic relevance of dairying, there is a risk to all those sectors in terms of the increased demand for land, and the pressure that it has resulted in this year in terms of land price for rental. That is obvious and very plain to see. We have seen rental land costs go up significantly, fuelled by demand. That can have negative impacts everywhere else.

I return to my principal tenet, that whatever the criticism of the reduction to 220 kg per hectare, we would like everybody to focus on the fact that we have an option to get this at least moving in the right direction by 2025 by working collectively with farmers. It would be remiss of me and an abdication of responsibility, as somebody who has worked in this area for a long time and has been involved in a lot of negotiations, not to give that message around the risks in 2025. The game has changed and we need to see progress.