Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

What is suggested in Deputy Ó Broin's amendments is better than the current wording, which is highly restrictive. Most people do not get their news from national print newspapers; they get it from news broadcasts or online. Print editions of most daily newspapers may not be with us in five or ten years, which will make much of this obsolete. That is a detail around what is the best way to get information out through newspapers, advertisements or whatever. That misses the point. Recommendation 4 of our pre-legislative scrutiny report on this matter states: "That the proposed Bill should provide for a process to be undertaken wherein all landowners with a recognised monument on their lands be officially notified of its presence, significance, and attendant legal protection.". If this is simply done by means of an advertisement in a publication or whatever in the hope that people will see it, that is not going to be sufficient, robust or thorough.

When I talk to archaeologists who do site visits they have said that the oral traditions are really dying out in many parts of the country. People knew that they had significant monuments on their land, and that knowledge was passed on from generation to generation. The memory of that is dying off or becoming quite faint. Archaeologists have told me about turning up to visit a significant monument and being greeted with shock by the landowner. The thing they were told was very important by an elderly relative, whom they may not have believed, actually turns out to be very important. People can be quite surprised when they discover that they have monuments on their lands.

We cannot assume that people know exactly what they have on their land. I do not think publishing a notice in a national newspaper or whatever is going be sufficient. That is not to mention the debate regarding what constitutes a national newspaper actually. Many people of different ages simply do not read print editions of publications. That trend is only going to intensify in years to come. People may not be reading various online editions of publication either. What is required is that a written notice to be sent out in respect of all the monuments that are known. Significant work will be required in the context of getting the names of landowners who have monuments on their properties. If we do not do that, the situation will simply be inadequate. For the landowners involved, it will also be inequitable. We are talking about potentially large fines or prison terms under this legislation. I do not think any court is necessarily is going to issue those fines or hand down prison sentences, except in the case of the deliberate destruction of something of major significance.

There are a small number of prosecutions in this area, and there have only been nine since 2007, as far as I am aware. Where we have a process that is not robust and where, effectively, people may not know something is a monument and where that knowledge is held by the State, the onus is on the State to notify the landowners, which is important in terms of any subsequent enforcement and allocation of responsibility, and to make sure we get the best outcomes. The amendments from Deputy Eoin Ó Broin certainly improve the wording, but even with that, I do not see how that is a workable and effective system. Certainly, without them, simply to say “national newspaper” is not enough. What does that actually mean and why would the Minister not opt for a more robust way?

It has to be a matter of writing to the landowners with the knowledge of the monuments that we have, telling them their responsibilities, making that clear and giving them a clear legal responsibility to pass on that information to any subsequent landowner, so if they are selling the piece of land, one of the obligations with the sale of the land is to pass on that information. That would be robust, would work and would be fair and equitable and we would get much better protection of monuments. Often, when monuments are destroyed, it can be because people simply do not know or they had just heard a faint rumour that there is something there of significance, but they do not really think it is. They do not have that knowledge whereas the State has that knowledge and can pass it on. We absolutely need to do that.