Dr. John Bosco Conama:

We will try to remember all the Deputy's questions and might share them between the three of us. I am happy to respond. Ms Grehan and I will both respond. The Deputy asked about early intervention and how we fare compared with other countries. That is a good question. I know some countries are absolutely fantastic and others are not. It is maybe safe to say that Ireland is, from my personal experience, kind of middling. Some countries do not provide post primary school for deaf children at all, whereas in Ireland we have that. When one talks about what the most effective interventions are, in Norway, every parent of a child who is born and diagnosed deaf is offered free sign language tuition from the age of three months. They go to a residential camp to learn about deaf awareness and sign language. The government pays for the parents to do that. I would like to see a similar model adopted here.

What are effective interventions? Ms Grehan and I were both born deaf. There was no information. All information is acquired through sound, television and neighbours speaking. Sometimes we had to use gestural communication with family. It was a frustrating time. It has an effect on one's later learning capabilities. Quite a burden is placed on families to look after their deaf children after they leave school, because they are not independent. In the end, they become a burden on the State. How do we stop that from happening? We need to teach younger deaf children sign language and families need to be involved in that. That is the best answer I could give to that question.

The grading question is really great and I am glad the Deputy asked. Currently, we do not have a leaving certificate subject for Irish Sign Language. It is in the leaving certificate applied but not the leaving certificate programme. Universities in Ireland do not accept Irish Sign Language as a language. They see it as a second language or L2. For Ms Grehan and me, it feels like going back to sixth class. The centre for deaf studies in Trinity College has a grading system but it is in-house. That is what we use for training students to be Irish Sign Language interpreters. It is a common European framework reference. That is the system we use in the college. It is not used anywhere else but there is a huge need to have Irish Sign Language on the leaving certificate for hearing and deaf students. As I said, it is available for deaf students on the leaving certificate applied. We should see it being taught in primary schools. We definitely need a grading system for Irish Sign Language. A course was recently set up in DCU to train deaf students to become teachers of deaf children. When we assess their Irish Sign Language skills and competencies on the development paper, we wanted to make sure their Irish Sign Language skills matched a leaving certificate level. That was only used internally in DCU. I hope that answers the Deputy's question.

The Deputy asked about access to third level for deaf students. He is correct. There is a problem and it is related to literacy levels. I have been through university and work in a university, so I have seen first-hand the reasons deaf students do not come. They often do not want to give up their jobs. They need job security and financial security. They are concerned that if they leave to go to college, they will not have a job to return to. Literacy skills in English are an issue. We have literacy in Irish Sign Language and a high level of literacy and understanding through Irish Sign Language, but the struggles are in English. The organisation AHEAD mentioned in its report how so few come. Many times, it is because there is no interpreter provision, so we have a high dropout level for deaf students who are trying to embark on third level studies. We do not have a clear analysis and because of GDPR we cannot find out the statistics for the dropout rates.