Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I want to make this point and will finish on it, because the Minister has again tried to play the man instead of the ball. The Minister for Health has a project that has run out of control. We have now spent €1.7 billion on it. It may be more, depending on the sorting out of the claims. We were not the ones who appointed BAM. We are the ones who tried to bring in legislation in order that lowballing is not allowed in the future, which the Government voted against. It was previous Governments and now the Minister's Government that is dealing with BAM.

The issue is that it is not us who are saying it is going to be more expensive. As has been mentioned, independent experts are saying that getting this issue resolved will be more expensive and will become more time-consuming. The board tried to downplay it and say it was four ceiling grilles. The independent experts are saying they are actually major generic faults. I do not know. The STS Consultants report from May, October and November told the board over and over again. Finally, the board did some tests, although they were not normal or scheduled tests. It created a change order to do tests after which we understood there was a failing. Then, a stop works order was made in respect of 11 of the operating theatres, which the Minister did not even know about. I do not expect him to know about all the issues in health infrastructure and I have said that. However, it is the national children's hospital. It is likely going to cost us €2 billion and it has overrun time and time again. I do not expect a Minister for Health to be asleep at the wheel when an issue comes to light that may cause delays or substantial overruns whatever the costs are.

I have the stop order in front of me. The fact is that the Minister does not even know it was issued. The question for me is about why it was changed for them to recommence. The answer to that is there is no point stopping the works in those theatres because the theatres are complete, which was the very problem STS Consultants pointed out in back in May 2022. The Minister needs to sort this out now because if it is left, it will become more expensive and will take more time. It is not an issue of moving four ceiling grilles. The oxygen, electricity and all the services are in those roofs.

After this became headline news on RTÉ and in The Irish Times, did the Minister ask the board for a report regarding why it did not act in May when this was brought to its attention by independent experts to say these are not snagging lists but rather are indicative of major generic faults? Did he ask the board, when its members were on a walk-around with the experts in October, why they did not act or if they did, what did they do? In November, when they got the letter from the experts, what did they do? Why did it take them until March to carry out an unscheduled test? Why did they issue a stop works order to BAM in October? Why, on the day that Deputy Cullinane raised this matter with the Department's Secretary General in this committee room, was the start work order reissued, which makes no sense anyway because the work was completed in those rooms? Why has it now set up workshops to look at how to fix this and how many times have they met? The work order states that this change order will instruct a revision to the RCP, which will "require modifications to installed ceilings and mechanical and electrical services."

There is a problem. The Minister may want to have his head in the sand and just ignore it and all the rest but there is a problem. On behalf of taxpayers and parents and children everywhere, I would expect the Minister to figure out what is going on - not to get involved in the detail of it but to figure out what is going on. The board is telling him that this is a minor issue, but the board members are not experts on ventilation. That is no disrespect to anybody on the board nor is it calling into question their qualifications. Who provided them with that independent analysis that this is a minor issue? If that is the case and if the board knows there is a solution to this that is minor, then why under God has it called these three agencies or operators, mechanical, electrical and main contractor, together in a series of workshops to try to figure out how to resolve this issue if it already knows the solution? The Minister needs to get on top of this. He can come in here and blame Deputy Cullinane all he wants. Whistleblowers came forward and told the Minister that half of the operating theatres in the hospital have an issue with their ventilation, and independent reports state that this was pointed out over 13 months ago and if it is not dealt with, will cause delays and cost money. However, what is another couple of million euro? What is another couple of €10 million? It is a runaway train. I thought the Minister's approach to this was glib today. Playing the man instead of dealing with the issue is beneath him and beneath the seriousness of this issue.