Dr. Scott Fitzsimmons:

I will try to keep this brief. I thank Deputy Carthy very much. We could, of course, if we wanted to pursue a very low-cost foreign and defence policy, forgo having national Defence Forces at all. We would then not have to feel shame over it. We could pursue the Icelandic model and just say we will sign up to an alliance and let our allies protect us exclusively. That is one approach that is very inexpensive. I do not think anyone fears Iceland. No-one looks down on or has negative views about Iceland, and it is a long-standing member of NATO. However, because it has no capacity to take part in overseas conflicts, it does not. Again, we could take that approach as well. If I understand what Deputy Carthy said correctly, his central question was really about whether we could be an honest broker as a country if we were to be aligned more explicitly with other countries. I think we can, and I will use two examples. Canada and Norway have in many respects a very similar international profile to Ireland in a sense that we have played mediator roles frequently. I say "We" because Canada is my country of birth. Canada and Norway frequently play mediator roles. They are long-standing frequent participants in peacekeeping forces. Canada rightly or wrongly claims credit for inventing the concept of peacekeeping. One of our Ministers won a Nobel Peace Prize decades ago for it.

They earned this credibility by participating in international security in a whole variety of ways; it is not merely by saying: "We are a member of NATO; we are standing guard against potential external threats." You can do that, but at the same time you can be a very active member of the United Nations, as Ireland has been for many decades. We can continue to do that. Spending more on national defence and potentially allowing allies to bear some of our home defence burdens, we can actually free up more of our resources to be an even more active member of the United Nations and earn more credibility and respect that way, building on the legacy we have already created.