Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Apologies, I have just landed, but I was listening to the debate the entire time. I will not break with what people have said in thanking everyone. We could not operate without family carers. I know the witnesses are probably fed up hearing that, and it is fairly trite. However, in our work, we have come across a huge number of people, and some obvious things are said about the heavy lifting which carers are doing from their own family's point of view and from society's point of view. They are saving this State a huge amount of money. In fairness, they are not always being met anywhere close to the middle.

There has already been significant conversation on the necessary moves, whether we are talking about anything from pensions through to all the payments. I accept there are always grading points, but we need to look at family carers slightly differently from how we look at social protection payments across the board. I do not know how many people I have met who have probably had fairly decent-paying jobs, but then because of their family circumstances had to become a full-time carer. On top of the impact which that had on making mortgage payments, etc., at times the State can be incredibly stringent. I get it that rules are rules, but if the rules do not work, one changes them. That goes without saying, so it is something we really need to get a grip on.

I would like to talk about a particular issue which has been thrown at me in the last couple of days. We all know the issues when people even get into the services, whether it is primary care, disability services, children's disability network team, CDNTs, etc.We have all had the argument about the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS. Nobody is particularly worried about where they get the service, if only they and their child get the service which is absolutely required. However, the fact is that at times one is dealing with outfits which have very specific rule sets that one needs to fit. The problem is we can be dealing with autistic people - I will not say out-of-the-ordinary - who do not necessarily have the comorbidities. We all understand that dyspraxia meets attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD, meets autism, and all the behavioural difficulties there can be. However, there can be people who have other very specific symptoms, and even diagnoses at times. I am not going to go into the specifics of it, but they find over many years that they have literally been pushed from pillar to post.

It is easy for me to say, but my impression at that times is that one is dealing with services which are all under-resourced, so they have to try to keep as many people off their books as possible in order they can probably do justice to those they have on their books. Obviously, individuals then feel, and probably rightfully, that they are getting screwed over completely. I am going to ask the witnesses' view on that.

In fairness, this committee has been very good at getting down to a number of thematic problems we have which need to be dealt with. At this stage, it is a case of us knowing that we do not have enough of any of the services, so can we look at what we have and at what is the best we can offer to people at this point of time? As I said, I am going to ask the witnesses about their view on that.

Deputy Buckley went into assisted decision-making, and the witnesses spoke about welcoming the legislation but with a "but". That has been raised with me by a number of people operating in the disability sector and beyond. We all know the issues we have had in society, and I am making a fair jump here, in the sense that we had a society which did not necessarily have the respect it needed for human rights' situations. However, I also find we have situations and circumstances we may be overlooking at times in terms of people with real need, and who need real protections. I am not entirely sure we have found that sweet spot which is absolutely perfect. I know I have left that one open to interpretation, but if the witnesses could try to answer my questions, I would be only too delighted.