Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for her support. I agree 100% with what Senator Flynn said. Many people believe that autistic children in particular have not been able to access CAMHS or that there has been some discrimination in relation to them.

I do not know but I am trying to tease things out. A child may be diagnosed with autism, get their assessment of needs, etc. but the parents may not get the services they need to assist their child to have the best life possible with the supports they need. There is then a mental health reaction to that and anxiety could possibly arise. They will go to their GP who will assess them. There could be a two-year waiting list to go through the primary care system. They will then be referred to CAMHS, and CAMHS will say, "No, that child does not have moderate to severe mental health problems". They will then be referred back to the GP. The child will not be able to access primary care because there is a two-year waiting list. This is the frustration that many people on the ground are feeling.

It must be frustrating for the witnesses if they are trying to provide services for people in relation to their mental health and they do not have the resources to deal with that. I am not blaming them specifically for that, but we really need to try to address what we are going to do to provide services. The Minister of State said that all the different sectors, the private and the public sectors, are all working out of the same pool and are trying to attract therapists to their area. That has to be looked at more. I also raised it last week with Adam Harris.

We have to look at ways we can retain staff in our CDNTs and in our mental health services. We really need to start thinking outside the box in relation to this. There is a high level of vacancies. In occupational therapy, it is 40%. It is 39% for psychology. It is 28% for social workers. It is 29% for nursing. You cannot provide services when there is that level of vacancy. It is just impossible. Therefore, the frustration comes in relation to what CAMHS is actually for which is for moderate to severe mental health assessments.

I put it to the Minister of State that we have to look at how we attract those people who are doing their leaving certificate into therapies. We should do a recruitment campaign. The State should offer a scheme to those students that would pay for their courses. On that basis, if they accept that money from the State, they must give a commitment that they will work in those services in the public service for at least eight years. If they do not, that money will be taken back from them. Unless we ensure retention in our CDNTs, which are under pressure because of vacancy rates of between 30% to 50%, which Mr. O'Regan adverted to, we are not going to deal with this issue. We will not be able to resolve it. Could that be looked at? Could the Minister of State advocate for that in relation to retaining more people?

If the retention rate were better, there would not be so much pressure on the other therapists who are working in the CDNTs. People would not be under as much pressure and find that they want to leave. They go abroad, into private care, or whatever, because there will be less pressure on them. That is the root problem and we have not dealt with that yet. Unless we deal with that and get proper assessment of needs for children, and if mental health is an overlay on that, at least it will be clearer and mental health services will be able to diagnose children who need that care. That is what it really comes down to.