Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Tuesday, 16 May 2023
Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence
Disinformation and Hybrid Threats in a Geopolitical Context: Discussion
Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent) | Oireachtas source
I thank the witnesses for their excellent opening presentations and statements. I will start with Dr. Culloty. I take her views on debunking. It is very important. I remember when Ben Wallace, the defence secretary in the UK, published that article in UK newspapers a couple of days before the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia. He introduced words that most people in Ireland had not heard, that is, straw man and false-flag attack. It was an excellent example of how one can inoculate the public in advance of what is likely to happen down the tracks. The article was very good. The other comment Dr. Culloty made is true; it is the first conflict, at least that I remember, where intelligence is declassified almost in real time and pumped out on social media to counteract what the authoritarian states are doing. It is very effective. I have a question for Dr. Culloty on media literacy training. I understand some training takes place in secondary schools at present but I am not sure to what extent, that is, whether it is just in transition year or ingrained throughout the whole cycle. Does Dr. Culloty have any updates for the committee on what kind of media literacy training is taking place for Irish students and whether we can improve it in any way? That would be very useful.
Ms Heinl mentioned, quite rightly, that there is no overarching counter-hybrid strategy in Ireland, but there is not really even a national security strategy. I am trying to establish how normal or abnormal that is. Is it normal for a country not to have a national security strategy? We have the National Security Analysis Centre, NSAC, but apparently the boss, Dermot Woods, has a part-time role, among other roles he has in the Department of the Taoiseach. Is it normal for someone to have such an important position in a part-time capacity, throughout the EU and the developed world? We do not have a national security adviser in Ireland. How normal or abnormal is that? It strikes me as unusual that Ireland, of all countries, does not have a national security adviser.
I take Professor Laffan's point about the Arctic, in that it is a blind spot for us. We are fairly secure to the west, south and east, but there is a blatant gap to our north. There are no countries there. People are under the impression that Russia and Ukraine are thousands of miles away, but I would argue that Russian warships can sail right up to the 12-nautical-mile limit of Irish territorial waters. Thus, sovereign Russia is only 12 nautical miles away. That is a big concern. How is Ireland's lack of defence capacity perceived in the EU? Is it worried? Are we a burden on the EU? I recall that in the run-up to the financial crisis, many rational, moderate voices from the EU were warning Ireland. They were saying it was not normal; that our banks and our property situation were out of control and we needed to take action. Not only were they completely ignored, they were actively mocked. I remember certain politicians at the time shouting back at Europe and saying it was just jealous of the extraordinary economic success we had. I see similarities and parallels in the advice and warnings we were given in the run-up to 2007 and what we are getting now. It is obviously a different sphere. It is not economic anymore; it is more security focused. I am interested to hear Professor Laffan's views on how the EU and even places beyond the EU, perceive Ireland's inability to defend and protect itself.
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