Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I have the utmost respect for former Deputy Alan Shatter too. I do not say this to be overly provocative but some of the phraseology used, which I will not repeat, is just not what I recognise in any way, shape or form as how An Garda Síochána carries out its business. Our Garda, regardless of the Minister or the Commissioner, is entirely independent in its investigations, which I am beyond satisfied of. Our prosecutorial system is also entirely independent, which I know the Deputy would not disagree with. Given my position, I am not going to comment on any individual case other than to say that beyond any individual case and what any individual decides to do with any piece of information at any time, there is the discretion of two people involved, that of a Garda Commissioner of the day and of the Minister, as to what a Minister decides to do with the information he or she has been given. Even in the brief time I have been in this role, I think the Garda Commissioner having that ability, which is not overly prescriptive in law, in terms of what he or she can tell the Minister for Justice, is an extraordinarily important provision. It is one I know is used on a regular basis. I certainly would not like to be the Minister for Justice or wish for any of my successors to be in a situation in which the Garda Commissioner nearly has to take out a sheet of paper to see if he or she is allowed to tell the Minister for Justice. At the end of the day, the Minister of Justice, whoever he or she is, whatever party is in government or not, is a constitutional officeholder accountable to the House for the security of the State and policing, not for individual policing investigations but for overall policy. To give my honest appraisal of the situation, I think there would be quite significant unintended consequences because this practice has been in place for a long time and it is one I believe is quite important to our democracy. Even though I am bringing forward many suggestions about new structures and oversight, I am very carefully trying to guard, as this legislation goes through and as my colleagues in the Department know, the important relationship between the Minister and the Garda Commissioner and ensure it remains intact. Anything that reduces it reduces democratic accountability to these Houses. I somewhat get the Deputy's point, though I disagree with some of the language. Subsection(1) of section 36 requires that the Garda Commissioner keep the Minister for Justice informed and the Secretary General of the Department of Justice fully informed of certain enumerated matters relating to significant developments in policing and security.

It also relates to public confidence in An Garda Síochána and matters relevant to the accountability of the Government to the Houses of the Oireachtas. We spoke earlier about the issue of public confidence and the importance of maintaining it. The proposed amendment would remove the requirement on the Garda Commissioner to keep the Minister fully informed of any matters beyond those I have already mentioned which, in the Commissioner's opinion, should be brought to the Minister's attention. This is about trusting that the individual who is Commissioner uses that discretion regarding what other matters are and that the Minister of the day uses his or her discretion regarding that information. The provision is just a restatement, as the Deputy acknowledged.