Mr. John McKeon:

I think it will lead to an increase. The Chair is right when he says that we will need to monitor it. It is difficult to set a specific target because we are coming out of a period. Maybe we will be able to do so in a year's time. We need to watch the data and the evidence. I think most appeals officers would probably support me in this regard, although I might be wrong. In the days when we did between 40% to 50% by means of oral hearing, we were probably over-egging that approach. In the days when we did less than 10%, we were probably under-egging it. It is about getting the balance. We are probably now in a transition situation. I fully accept the point the Chair has made. Appeals officers need experience of oral hearings if they are to conduct them. The tap has to be kept turned on because if it is turned off and it freezes, we are in trouble when we need the water to flow again. We need to ensure it is at a level which will support the competency development of the appeals officer but also at a level that is appropriate. It would probably be wrong to go back to 40% or 50% - and taking six to nine months to get through all of our appeals, compared to 15 weeks today - but maybe we have gone too far in the other direction after coming out of Covid. However we will keep an eye on it and take the points on board.