Dr. Tom Boland:

I would say that it is the very best and, in a certain way, it is the best of those we have mentioned so far in the liberal, Anglophone countries we are talking about. It has become remarkably better. We were going in a bad direction. In 2018, which is the last date I have numbers for, we had something like 12,800 sanctions, which is 12,800 people pushed below the poverty line. I have spoken to many of these people and it was for infractions that were as minor as missing meetings.