Dr. Tom Boland:

Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. In 1998, when the Good Friday Agreement was signed, the Republic of Ireland had probably the most generous welfare system in the world. It was generous not just in terms of cash but also in terms of trust. The Department of Social Protection looked on unemployment benefit at that time as an entitlement, almost like a right. Being unemployed was never and is never an easy option. Payments have always been less than the minimum wage but, back then, it was secure. An unemployment payment was as reliable as a pension, as such.

The differences between welfare systems North and South are many and reflect economic factors and governmental priorities. Any movement towards a united or federal Ireland should ensure that all citizens on the island are treated equally by those systems. The opportunity to discuss different welfare systems and consider lines of development alongside Dr. Ciara Fitzpatrick and the committee and drawing from research carried out by the AISSN is very welcome and important.

Unfortunately, current trends towards confluence on the island reflect the tendency of governments in Dublin to imitate measures which were developed by governments in London. The Northern Executive's mitigation of UK welfare reforms in 2012 demonstrates that there is an appetite for other policy directions, perhaps following more European models. We have, therefore, an opportunity for new thinking in this conversation.

After the Troika bailout in 2010, the Irish State remodelled welfare, copying ideas from the UK, Australia and even the US. It introduced conditionality, activation and sanctions. This means that even if a person is eligible for a welfare payment, it is no longer secure. Any non-compliance with the directives of welfare officers, even missing a meeting, can result in a cut to welfare which puts people below the poverty line or may even make them destitute. Since Covid, the severity and frequency of these measures have reduced somewhat. The rather dubious JobPath scheme and the "Welfare cheats cheat us all" campaign are behind us I hope. Yet, a more suspicious and punitive attitude has become ingrained in the system and conditionality and sanctions have become routine and accepted. I want to be very clear that sanctions do not work. Threatening and punishing people does not create more jobs. Earlier this month, as Dr. Fitzpatrick mentioned, the UK finally published a report which shows that people who are sanctioned move to accept less well-paid jobs.

Research in Ireland suggests that even the threat of sanctions depresses people's wages and pushes them into lower quality jobs. North and South, we need to move away from sanctioning and return to the ideal of unconditional support, and offer information, training and education as options to help people back to work.

While the Republic perhaps once had a most generous welfare state, the provision of services was somewhat lacking and often outsourced to the church, historically. There is no NHS south of the Border. The welfare state should also extend beyond cash payments to housing, healthcare and education, all three of which should be rights assured by the State, rather than left up to the market.

Effectively, the Irish welfare system, like any welfare system, is a hybrid, made up of different ideas and systems borrowed from elsewhere. If there is ever to be an all-island welfare system, we must give very careful thought to the values that underpin the system we adopt. I too am a hybrid. My great-grandfather was a Presbyterian who left west Cork in a hurry during the War of Independence. My mother is English, and my father a Dub. He met her when his whole family emigrated to England and part of his family were Huguenot back in the day and refugees from France. Inniu, táim líofa sa Ghaelainn, rud a fuair me ó mo bhean chéile. Is hybrid mé mar táimid go léir.

It is like The Cider House Rulesin that we make them up every day. Any welfare system is a hybrid; it is recreated every year by politicians and policymakers, by the people who run the systems. The challenge of an all-island welfare state is also an opportunity to examine our systems and what we want to achieve with them. It is not just a technical task but also a question of politics and cultural values, so this conversation is very welcome.