Mr. Chris Macey:

Defining what ultra-processed foods are is quite a complex area. There is a system of categorisation with four food groups that is generally used by dieticians. Before coming here I spoke to our dieticians. They are saying that these are foods that are typically high in sugar, fat, salt and refined starches. Such foods often use ingredients that would not be used in ordinary kitchens such as soya protein isolates or dextrose, colourings, emulsifiers, flavourings and other additives. We are talking about sugar-sweetened drinks, salty snacks, confectionery, pre-prepared frozen dishes, reconstituted meat products, canned and instant soups, chicken nuggets, ice creams, and so on. That is the area. As I said, we are not looking for complexity around this. We are looking to be effective rather than to be perfect. I believe we can be if we target that top tier of the food pyramid that is supposed to be 1% of the diet but is actually maybe 30% to 40% of the diet. Certainly, the marketing of the 1% is about 60% of the marketing that goes on. It is crazy. It is bound to lead to the situation we are in. We are not purist about what it is. We do not want things like cheese to be touched. We do not want any of that. We do not want any major controversy about something such as fruit juice, which has come up under sugar because fruit juice is high in sugar. In low amounts, drinking fruit juice is very good because there is so much other good stuff in it. We do not want to get into that. We want to get into the stuff that there is not much argument about such as confectionery, for example, and that type of thing. Again, we do not want to stop people eating chocolate but we just want to bring it back to the way it used to be when it was a treat. Treats are now sold as, "A Mars a day helps you work, rest and play", whereby you have worked hard and you deserve a snack, which is a high fat and high sugar snack. I do not mean to single it out. One could pick any one of hundreds of products. We will all see some of those advertisements today where they have changed a treat into a snack and this is part of the problem we are in.