Mr. Bernard Gloster:

By its very nature, the context of protected disclosure and the connotation of whistleblower would mean that people who would identify themselves in that position would probably start from the perspective of finding it very difficult to trust somebody like me. In their mind, I represent the system or the establishment which they feel they have to go up against, taking personal and professional risks in order to call out what they see as a harm or wrongdoing. I would not want to be patronising to anyone in that position.

I have an absolute view that where people see and believe that there is a significant wrong-doing that is causing harm, or will cause harm to people, they should first and foremost be in and be part of a culture where they can articulate that and put that out there without fear of reprisal or of being isolated or scapegoated in any way. Equally I would say that when it is demonstrated that the system has done everything it can, proportionately, to look at that and try to evidence that concern and respond to it, there must come a point at which the whistleblower and the system have to agree or disagree on what the outcome is. That is where we get into things like independence and independent reviews and so on.

There is an extent to how far that can go and whether we can ever satisfy. I have seen some dreadful working relationships fractured in that very protracted space. My underlying position is, and has to be, that we have to have a culture where people who are in and part of our service and our organisation have the freedom to express that concern, and to have that concern considered reasonably. There are a lot of people who have done that and who have done a service to the public, and at times some of their concerns have been upheld. There have been other occasions where the concern has not been upheld, stacked up or validated and unfortunately the person is still very often left feeling that somehow the system is still wronging him or her in some way. That is where relationships can become intractable and difficult. It is very regrettable and I do not think there is an easy answer to it. I simply want to assure people that for as long as I am the CEO of the HSE if there are concerns there has to be a place for that concern to be heard.