Dr. Kenneth McDonagh:

Returning to the idea of whether this co-operation is a stalking horse and how it might relate to our strategic orientation, we are all familiar with the old joke of tourists travelling on the Wild Atlantic Way asking for directions to Dublin and being told, "I would not start from here". The question of what is our strategic orientation is quite separate from the kinds of capabilities we need to deal with the threats we are all aware of now. Bringing that into what these processes are that I spoke about, they are very much driven by member states. It is about what Ireland thinks it can get out of its engagement with PESCO and these are other mechanisms. It is not a case of the Commission or someone in Brussels dictating what we need to do. This concerns us identifying a capability we need and asking if this is the most appropriate way for us to develop it. We can certainly explore these options without in any way compromising our strategic orientation.

Turning to protectionism, I will put my international relations theory hat back on and say that the danger of that kind of closing off is exactly what we are seeing now concerning Russia and the limited effect our sanctions are having. Outside of energy resources, the Russian economy had decoupled itself to a greater or lesser degree from the global economy, at least as it flowed to Europe and North America. In some cases, this can increase the likelihood of potential conflict because there is not the shared bed of interests on which co-operation can be based. I would, therefore, likewise caution against going too far in that direction, while recognising prudent steps can be taken regarding pieces of infrastructure and technology in the context of which we want to ensure the security of supply chains.