Mr. Dermot Sreenan:

That is a brilliant question. The way MABS looks at it is that in order to make an informed decision and put somebody on a repayment that is sustainable and affordable, the lender, creditor, nonbanking entity or whatever, must be aware of the financial circumstances of the family itself. That is a core part of what MABS does. For everybody who is dealing with those letters that are going out, the first point of contact is with MABS. We can now collect the data. We are in regular contact with the Central Bank, and we can bring this information to members. The example I hold up for how MABS works is the hardship funds that we have had in operation with the five utility companies. We have people who are at risk of disconnection, having built up significant debts in regard to utilities. It started off with Electric Ireland. The companies come to MABS with the offer of having a hardship fund. What happens in that regard is a microcosm of what should happen when we are dealing with a nonbanking entity or a bank. We bring the people directly into the MABS process, which is holistic and establishes the true nature of the debt. We recognise that it is multifaceted. We look at the entire family income, income maximisation, entitlements and what is a reasonable budget and then we work out how much people can pay. We have got people reconnected. We now enjoy a very good relationship with the core utility providers because we have worked in partnership with them on this. The people we got reconnected were put on payment plans. Once people go on a payment plan, they have had substantial amounts written off in terms of the debts they might have accrued.

This is what keeps MABS going. MABS is a very difficult space to work in. Money advisers write back to us and say that it was a lifeline to people. What we are asking for is exactly the same process to happen in regard to nonbanking entities and to everybody else. Let us have meaningful engagement with it. Let us get all the facts on the table. Let us bring all the data to the Oireachtas. We will say if it is not working, and the companies refuse to co-operate. If there is non-meaningful engagement, our commitment is that we will bring this back to the committee. If the committee invites us back, we will tell members the stories and exactly what meaningful engagement looks like. We have it and enjoy it with the utility providers. There is no reason we cannot enjoy it with the nonbanking entities as well.

I will provide the figures, which are astounding, and give a flavour of what has happened, which has been very important for MABS clients. A Bord Gáis Energy fund was set up in March and credit of €786,333 was given to the end of the year. The first project we had with Electric Ireland, from March 2021 to June 2022, involved €1.345,884 million and related to 1,924 accounts. From September 2022 to December 2022, €314,000 credit was provided to 978 accounts. That is an example of what works and how MABS can deliver. We need to know what people can afford to pay.