Ms Bronagh Hinds:

That is a great suggestion on room in the PEACEPLUS programme. I noticed when the Taoiseach made one of the opening statements here and talked about the shared island programme, there are elements in that which they have designated in terms of council collaboration, particularly in the west of Northern Ireland, which is a thing in itself. Much of the collaboration seems to be around the Border counties and in the west. Perhaps we need to extend it across to more councils. It is worth looking at that to see who is involved in those collaborations. It is a question of trying to gender-proof. Are women present? Are women present substantively? The substantive is the impact, input and output in relation to women. That would be the place to start and see how that is being built on.

On how to do that strategically, I was a commissioner on the Local Government Staff Commission for a period. It is that organisation that I was working with on the women in local councils initiative and I am still involved in an advisory capacity with an advisory group, which is now championing equality and diversity. It has been fabulous. At one point, I could not understand why it was going to be abolished and I do not know whether it still is to be abolished. I think the political parties wanted it abolished. It challenged a number of councils in terms of their application of equality and diversity. Perhaps it was that. However, for an organisation, it spent very little money for the benefit and the work that it was doing, as far as I could see. It is still there in a small capacity. One of the things it prioritises is equality and diversity. We have had some good meetings. Perhaps we can talk later but I think some collaboration could be fed in there. It would be a good organisation, working with the Northern Ireland Local Government Association, in terms of trying to move an equality and diversity agenda and in particular, a women’s equality agenda where they are under-represented could be looked at.

I refer to the work Fidelma Ashe and others have been doing. Some years ago, a piece of work was done by a group – I am trying to recall who it was led by – that brought out a paper on gendering legacy issues as well. The first thing is no more can there be any body appointed in Northern Ireland that does not have an equal participation of women. Second, that does not necessarily guarantee how to gender those issues. It is not easy. Even though we have had section 75, which comprises the equality provisions and was supposed to be a mainstreaming tool, it is often used as tick-box exercise once people see it. People do not understand how to apply it and that you interrogate your policy to look not just the input in terms of representation and contributions but the outputs and impacts of what you will have. I refer to transport and lighting. Is lighting a gendered issue? Yes, it is, but some people do not think it is. It is about thinking in that way and ensuring that if those inputs are not going in and that representation is not in, that is where you make the sure the voices are heard.

On urban and rural women, we have a great set-up in Northern Ireland. Some people might think, unlike other places, we do not have one umbrella organisation in the women’s sector and no one would dare set themselves up as such.

It should not be done because the collaboration that has emerged, particularly from strategic women's organisations, is fantastic. I mentioned the Women's Resource and Development Agency. There is also the Women's Support Network, which co-ordinates all the women's centres in Northern Ireland. There is the Women's Platform, which does a lot of the work on United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325 and was the European link for the women's sector. I have to hold my hand up as a founder of that organisation when we were setting up the European Women's Lobby. It does the United Nations links for women and ensures that women are tuned in to all those. We also have the Northern Ireland Rural Women's Network, which is always a part of that.

During the pandemic, people had to go online. We now need to think about communications. We discovered that people from some areas were communicating more because they did not have to travel to Belfast all the time, Dungannon, which it is in the centre of the universe in Northern Ireland, or wherever else. That was fabulous. We need to have face-to-face contact because that is where one develops relationships but we need to vary our communications. The rural women's network has done a fabulous job.

These groups work strategically but they are well connected into the women's information group, which brings together local grassroots women's groups in Northern Ireland. All these organisations have different groups. Together, they work in the Women's Policy Group Northern Ireland, which involves women from those groups and other organisations who get together and develop policy. During the pandemic, for example, women were not included in some of the strategic roles. That policy group lobbied until women got involved. I did a piece of work for the Women's Resource and Development Agency on the impact of the recession on women and brought out a document on all the policy proposals. In particular, there is the issue - Ms Gildernew will love this - of moving our absolutely antediluvian childcare policy into something that really supports women and families. That needs to start from the point of providing for employment and support on an all-round basis and then building education and welfare for children into that. We are only now beginning to think of that at times when it is very costly but a big document on the impact of the pandemic and recessions on women was produced and it is a fantastic piece of work.

Similarly, we now have the Northern Ireland Women's Budget Group, which brings many of these organisations together and links with women in the South through the National Women's Council of Ireland, as well as women in Scotland, England and Wales in addition to its work in Northern Ireland. It brings women's organisations together to have strategic conversations, including with permanent secretaries and senior people in Departments, about where the money is going, where are we seeing the impact and the investment policy. We are not seeing enough shift in that regard. We all need to put our shoulders to the wheel to push that further. The sectors are organised, however. It goes back to the point that they are run on fewer staff than many of the bigger organisations. Where is the investment? They need investment if we are going to turn our societies around.

I do not know that I am qualified to speak on further and higher education in reconciliation. There have been a number of pieces of work. I am thinking of the work of Tony Gallagher, as well as that of Laura Dunne, who has been looking at education and other maters in schools and all those issues. They have a big role. Queen's University Belfast has the teacher training colleges as part of the university and we need to build that into teacher training as well.

As regards the all-island charter of rights, we need to get a move on. It needs to be done efficiently. I have been doing charters of rights since the 1970s, when I was in the civil rights movement and the women's rights movement. Maybe we need to do it at grassroots level and put the pressure on. We also need support from people such as the committee members, however, who have more influence with the centres of power. We need to move that agenda on.