Mr. David Hall:

Generally speaking, if a person is in debt, the debt will catch up with them. The point is there should be a mechanism to deal with it. Deputy Durkan said earlier that we have all engaged with lenders and there are very robust, rigorous processes in place at the moment that are quite boring and tedious. Some are good and some are bad. Sometimes we get outcomes we like and sometimes we do not get outcomes we like. Sometimes we get surprisingly good outcomes but ultimately there is no safe place. There is nowhere for someone to go. There is no central organisation. The Money Advice & Budgeting Service, MABS, has an excellent function. The Free Legal Advice Centres, FLAC, does a lot of advisory work and there is the Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation, IMHO. If one thinks about it from a central perspective, when we opened the conversation around vulture funds and what happened there, there was no independent debt resolution body set up to deal with debtors. There were no counselling services or advisory functions set up. Members can contact Irish Water and get advice but there is nowhere to go in respect of these conversations. We have constant conversations with the offices of Members of the Oireachtas about referrals but we do not treat consumers who are in debt with the due respect they deserve or the protection they deserve. The Government has put nothing in place. There is the Abhaile scheme, which is not fit for purpose, and the insolvency legislation, which has still not been changed or reviewed. We need to have a safe place for someone who is in debt or who considers they will become indebted in the near future to go to get impartial, independent and full advice and to not be battling banks, vulture funds and their lawyers when it comes to courts.