Mairead Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

It is a fair point. Our clinics were mentioned earlier. The deprivation we see in our clinics is absolutely horrendous. People come into our clinics and tell us things they would not tell a friend or neighbour. We see deprivation at first hand. We do not live through it, however, and maybe that is part of the issue too. I am acutely aware that it is not just a matter of figures and numbers but also a matter of real people's lives.

I have two separate questions and do not know which to ask first. I might ask them in a general way, and we can go from there. I like the phrase "not evidence based". It is really good. I have never used it but believe it is important. Yesterday I was doing some media work and the first question I was asked was about what was happening to people who are working. That is not to say there are not plenty of people in deprivation who are working – I do not mean it that way – but the conversation is often framed as being about these people against these people rather than looking at society as a whole. That is a big issue that I encounter.

I have two questions on the phrase "not evidence based". Are our guests saying the current rates are not evidence based?

On the PUP, Mr. Nugent referred to the €350. This was the kind of income he saw people in the hospitality sector working for. He said the average weekly wage just does not equate with the living wage in any shape or form. While the €350 was welcome, does Mr. Nugent feel it was based on evidence or a decision plucked out of thin air?