Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

We have to be careful because one of the complexities, as the Deputy will know, is that our climate plan and targets are based on the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC, accounting mechanisms. That 7% target was from the time this Government came into office and measures back to 2018. There are different European timelines and targets so comparing one with the other is complicated.

The Deputy made a valid point about land use and the scale of challenge. In the middle of the process of accessing the sectoral emissions last year, scientists came back to us and said that rather than being a sink, forestry will turn into a source and land use rather than it being, as the Deputy said, approximately 4.8 million tonnes, it is going to reach the equivalent of 11 million tonnes because a lot of the forestry that was planted in the 1980s and 1990s in the uplands will be clear felled. The forestry was in the wrong location in the first place. We will have a real challenge to replace it and manage that land. The Deputy is correct that there is at least a 5 million tonne deterioration, if I recall, and recovering that is going to be a real challenge. In our climate action plan this is subject to legal challenge but in my mind it was best to say we need to assess scientifically how we can do that. We are halfway through the land use review and the evidence phase has been completed. We are due to start, which I hope will happen this month, the second phase, which will assist us in answering some of those questions on how we allocate a sectoral target to the land use sector.

To answer the Deputy's question directly, it may have kickback on some of the sectors or require the rebalancing of other sectors. It may have implications for agriculture or other such sectors. We would have to review it having done a lot of further scientific work this year to assess what soil management, forestry plans and so on will deliver the further reductions we need. This is a huge challenge and one that is most difficult but we do not have a choice under both European and Irish law.

On embodied carbon and the public procurement process, there is no baseline at present. We are asking each Department to fully engage. There is a review of green tenders and the delivery of a green public procurement strategy this year. My Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, is the key driver of this matter. That is right because he is now also the Minister of State at the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform so can deliver a crosscutting mechanism. One of the key aspects is embodied carbon in construction. Again, we are delivering a public procurement strategy, which I think will happen in quarter 2 of this year. There will be a review of green tenders and there will be a public procurement strategy around that so the public sector can lead on embodied carbon.

Last week, I attended a conference organised by the SEAI. It took place in The Helix theatre in Dublin City University and there must have been 700 people in the room. I have faith in our public sector.

Our public service has shown real capability during Covid-19 and Brexit and we need to deliver this level of application across all Government Departments on the public procurement side and the embodied carbon side.

Turning to the circular economy, I agree with the Deputy that this is systemic change and it must be change for the better, as well as more efficient and productive. The circular economy delivers all these potential advantages. One of the strengths we have is that the waste action plan in place, and there are about 200 actions in it, as well as the circular economy legislation and plan, has practical measures. It was devised with the involvement of all stakeholders, including industry, environmental NGOs, etc. Even in the next month or two, we are going to start to see some of the measures coming on stream. I refer to the 20-cent levy, or whatever figure is finally selected, on disposable cups to encourage us to switch in this regard. There will also be the introduction early next year of a deposit return scheme for plastic bottles. These are only examples, but they will be totemic in the switch towards a much more circular economic system. I agree with the Deputy regarding not seeing this as a punitive blame thing but as an opportunity. In terms of choice, the circular economy option is always better.