Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I have kept up with most of the meeting in the office or in between, but I apologise if I go over ground that has been covered. It would be a first if I did not. In fairness, the witnesses have been fairly straightforward in the sense of what is needed in the regional airport programme and state aid rules. They are aware that the state aid rules need to be revisited for a number of issues. Indeed, the EU has looked at some of it. The State has not necessarily been great at pushing back over the years, whereas the France and Germany definitely did. We might need something more - almost arguments, for want of a better word - from the airports almost in the context of the €1 million and €3 million. Perhaps that is something that can be proffered, and eventually somebody can have a conversation with the European Commission in respect of it.

I suppose the whole issue is around sustainability and in fairness, Deputy O'Rourke dealt with some of it. There is the domestic piece and the PSO levy. Beyond that, there is the product. Most of the witnesses apart from Ms Considine got to go through the ins and outs of it. When I stop talking, which will happen as the witnesses will be glad to hear, we will start with her in respect of that matter. Is it about putting that together?

Mr. Michael O'Leary and Mr. Willie Walsh were in here, and I refer to what they said straightaway in relation to regional airports. Mr. O'Leary was probably a lot more ruthless in what he said. He said some would survive and some would not. Sometimes politicians, probably, do not always help this. They will be happy enough to sell a tune that will sell all right as a press release but no regional airport is going to do okay on the basis of displacement from Dublin. We all know Dublin had its own chaos. You would like to think we are through that but Dublin would say it competes with Amsterdam or Frankfurt. As much as people ask whether people could go to other airports, that is probably not completely doable. We also accept that we need the connectivity. Then it is about how you sell yourself on an international basis, and that is probably not necessarily connecting to a hub. That is part of that wider question of selling that product.

I am not saying I am in complete agreement with Mr. Michael O'Leary, Mr. Willie Walsh or anyone else, but they have put it fairly clearly. I am asking the witnesses to defend their place and to say two things. What is sustainable aviation-----