Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

Okay.

I will move on to the management of the clinical indemnity scheme. I got a reply to a parliamentary question in 2018 that informed me that funding is allocated to the Department on the basis of costs that will be incurred during the year and is not allocated for possible future funding liabilities. It stated that on that basis, materially contingent liabilities funding will only be allocated when the cost associated with it crystallises and as such, the Department of Health would engage with the then Department of Public Expenditure and Reform regarding funding for the actual cost incurred by the Department. It stated that there had been no crystallisation of contingent liability for the Department in the previous ten years.

The HSE appeared before the committee last week. I do not see where this crystallises. The State Claims Agency routinely appears before this committee. In fact, it was quite useful the last time. The agency told us that during Covid, when the courts were not available, mediation was the route by which it was trying to get to open disclosure where you cut down on legal costs. However, there is another side to it, namely, where you reduce the possibility of damage being done by having a very good overview of where issues have arisen. There will always be issues, particularly around cerebral palsy, and that is where the large amounts arise. I do not see where this crystallises. I was told it had not arisen in ten years and we were told last week there was nothing in the HSE's accounts but at the same time, we are seeing people routinely coming out of the courts with heart-breaking stories. I do not see where that is very visible. Can Mr. Watt tell me where that is?

Can he also address the issue of the information that becomes available? From 2012, the outstanding liability and the number of claims have generally been trending upwards. In 2012, the estimated outstanding liability was €1.1 billion. By the end of 2021, that had increased to €4.5 billion. We need to understand why it is trending upwards and how damage limitation can happen because obviously that is the optimum for everyone. Where do we see that crystallising?