Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome our guests and their invaluable contributions, which come from the coalface and from people who have been working under stress for the past three years in appalling conditions and pressured situations all the time. We must do something about it quickly. On bullying in the workplace, it is simple. We do not have to build a structure. It needs to be followed. We have become accustomed in recent years to the practice of a report being published and someone looking at it five years later. There must be an instant response. Something must be done to deal with it.

There must also be a recognition that there are many contributory factors. Overcrowding in accident and emergency departments, such as those that I, the Chairman and other members of the committee have had occasion to attend over recent years, is certainly one that needs to be dealt with. A lot depends on the structures in the accident and emergency departments. Some hospitals have the staffing or the resources to deal with the situation quickly and in a way that calms the people waiting, so they are not asking if they will be sitting there today and tomorrow. When relatives have to ask what the hell is happening, if anything is happening at all and what is happening behind a window or door, it follows that pressure will be put on the staff because they are going to be wrongly blamed for it. The organisation should be blamed for setting it up in that fashion. There is a need to examine that in a way we have not done before in order to ensure we alleviate the pressure at admission stage in accident and emergency departments. This would allow people to understand what is happening and how long they are going to be there. Will it be three days, two days, one day or four days? Will it go on forever? The reaction is taken out on the staff.

We should also recognise everyone is less tolerant in the post-Covid situation. That is the way it is. Maybe it is directly as a result of Covid. If one enters a roundabout while driving, for instance, one will see the reaction of other drivers; everyone drives at the roundabout at speed hoping to chase everyone else off it. That was never the case nor is it a part of the rules of the road. That is just by way of an example. There is also an increased rejection of any kind of authority. It is a fact of life. Teachers, gardaí and various other operators say there is no respect for authority at all and this sentiment is growing. That has a serious and debilitating effect on those trying to provide services to the general public. It becomes one-way traffic with staff working under siege. Nobody should have to work under siege. We know this more than anyone else as we are often under siege ourselves. People in the health services, and in other public service roles, should not have to work under siege, with people standing over them saying, "I employ you. You do what I say now." That does not apply and that attitude must change.

We have to deal with that in our report to the HSE and in our interaction with the Department. There are three areas that we need to deal with.

My next point relates to long Covid. It has had an effect on everybody. All of us around the table here have had it. I have had it twice and some people have had it more often than that. It has a peculiar effect. It sticks with you in a way that nothing else does. It lingers on and so on and so forth. That has an effect not only on health service staff but on the patients as well. Everybody is at each other’s throat, for want of a better description, to get the services they want in the shortest possible time with a view to moving on.

I do not want specific answers. I am trying to address the issue from the points of view that are being presented to us. We have to make the moves after this. It is up to us to act as quickly as we can with the HSE and the Department of Health to address the issues that the witnesses have presented to us this morning and point out that it is hard to retain staff. We know one of the reasons and one of the contributing factors. Of course, it is hard to retain staff in those kinds of circumstances. Let us do something about it. At that level, at least we can do something.

My last point is on security. I cannot understand why security is so lax in sensitive areas. When entering the county council offices, there is security straightaway at the front door. People cannot get beyond that unless they are cleared. Any other business that I know of in the private or public sectors has security staff who deal immediately with any situation. They can interact with the person concerned, set them at ease and direct them to a particular area - all important and all liable to alleviate the stress and tension that the person might be under.

I ask that we call the HSE back within a short period – no more than five or six weeks – to see what has happened and whether a reasonable attempt was made to address the issues. It is not rocket science. It is the simple management of human beings that is necessary to deal with the issues they are raising under pressure. Remember, that is the important thing. This group of people has been under pressure at the coalface for a protracted period. There was not, and could not be, any let-up. The job that was being done had to be done and had to be done then – not later. One could not wait six months.

The presentations have been useful and we have all learned a lesson. I was aware of this beforehand, as were all committee members. It accentuates the necessity to deal with this when we get an upfront presentation from the coalface by people who are dealing with the situation every day.

I did not exceed my time.