Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I want to go back to the issue I raised earlier. I will be clear in terms of the questions I am seeking to have answered. Section 38 and 39 residential homes are voluntary community disability services. In many cases, we are talking about some of the most vulnerable people in our society in the context of those homes. The HSE advised patients in those settings that they would not be eligible for the nursing home refund scheme. A number applied anyway. The first question I want clarification on over the next number of days relates to how many people in that category applied. They were denied initially. Most applicants did not appeal on the basis of advice that was provided to them by the HSE to the effect that they stood no chance of success. As I understand it, appeals were made on behalf of 515 residents. I would appreciate it if we could get clarification on that. They people in question were residing in St. Michael's House, Cheeverstown House and with the Daughters of Charity. On looking at a sample of the cases in question, the appeals officer deemed that the people involved were eligible. The Government, along with the HSE and the Department, bizarrely decided to initiate legal challenges in order to appeal the decision of its own appeals officer. The appeal was withdrawn appeal when the Department was informed by its legal adviser that it was 100% guaranteed that a court would deem that there was no legal basis for the residents involved to have been charged. As we understand it from the financial statements, the HSE then proceeded to make payments. Were all 515 appellants awarded payments? What was the total sum involved?

We know from the 2011 memorandum that the estimated cost of paying those 515 was €20 million. That figure stacks up if we look at the financial provisions that were made in the HSE accounts. From the same memorandum, we know that there were thousands of residents in those section 38 and 39 voluntary disability services who either did not apply or who applied but subsequently did not appeal. The memorandum suggests that if they were to be compensated, the cost could be up to €360 million. If we look at the 515 appeals that cost €20 million, the amount per case works out at between €38,000 and €39,000. If we were to extrapolate that in respect of the €360 million to which I refer, we can see that, potentially, more than 9,000 people were affected. I want clarity in respect of the actual number of people who would have been affected. We know, again from the 2011 memorandum, that Ministers approved a strategy of purposely refusing to provide information to the people who were eligible for payment.

Can Mr. Mulvany ascertain the total number of people affected? In other words, how many people were entitled to payment but were denied? Can he indicate whether any effort was made by the HSE in the intervening period to contact those people, their guardians or their descendants to inform them about what had happened? If not, what will now be done?

I want to ask a question in relation-----