Dr. Sheila Gilheany:

Our reason for concern on that is that if it is not retained, we will get an increase in the density of outlets. We already know that if we increase the density and increase the total number, we will get additional harm. In respect of extinguishment, we suggest that we should not do away with it but that we should also have a system of like for like. If a pub licence is extinguished, it should not be possible to transfer that to an off-licence. There are quite different things happening between those two elements.

To go back to the reason we say we should monitor alcohol sales, it is so that we see the impact of some of the legislation we are talking about here. There would be such a difference between the sales we might see in a small rural pub and those in a large supermarket in a city. That is why it is very important to be able to measure these things alongside a measurement of all the harms that could be resulting. I know we sound like such killjoys in here but this is the sad reality. Alcohol sales do lead to alcohol harms. Let us have a system of actually measuring that and not just have it as conjecture and having to point to other countries. Let us look at the evidence we have here in Ireland and make sure that we gather it on a systematic, annual basis so that we can relate those harms back to locations. That would help inform the Government on what the licensing requirements should be in a particular area.