Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for coming before the committee, for their presentations and for their campaigning work on this issue. Barely a week goes by when I do not get letters from constituents about this issue. The phrase "Nothing about us without us" sums up this issue. As someone made the point earlier - I think it was Mr. Collins - we are dealing with deferred wages in this case.

That is what occupational pensions are. The reality as it is at the moment is that Mr. Collins's deferred wages and those of the hundreds and thousands of retired workers represented by the association can be changed without any input whatsoever by them. The ask that the retired workers have is not a very substantial one. It is quite minimal given the situation they are in. The point has been made that it would have no impact in any other aspect of industrial relations. This relates purely to the situation where we are dealing with changes to pension schemes and it has no impact on any ability to engage in strike action. It does not give one the right to engage in strike action or anything like that. It is purely about being at the table at the WRC.

The view contained in IBEC's submission - this certainly seems to be the Minister's position - is that employers who have occupational pension schemes have effectively no obligations to retired workers and there is no need or right for those workers to be involved in any discussions around that. Can the witnesses spell out, maybe in relation to the ESB, what the impact of that position is, what that has meant for them as retired workers, and how they have been able to be treated as a consequence of being completely excluded from the process?