Mr. Tony Collins:

There is the right to also be at the table with the sponsoring employer, because we still have that relationship. That is the issue here. We have a relationship with the sponsoring employer. There may have been some exchanges in the Dáil that indicated the relationship of a retiree or former worker is with the trustees of a scheme when he or she retires. It is not with the trustees. The trustees manage the investments and the scheme on behalf of the retired workers.