Mr. John Nugent:

I spent 12 years of my life on the ESB industrial council dealing with disputes. Procedures are not only about negotiation. Procedures are about conciliation, negotiation and arbitration. During my 12 years, we managed to keep peace in the ESB in terms of industrial relations through that process of procedures. We are looking for similar procedures to be available to retired workers. As the Deputy has said quite rightly, we cannot go on strike. We will not be going on strike. We want to put up our arguments, whether it is in negotiation, conciliation or arbitration but we are not allowed to do that at the moment, which to me is a denial of basic human rights. I reiterate that it is not our intention whatsoever to interfere with the normal industrial relations procedures.