Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for giving their valuable time this evening. I appreciate what they have contributed so far. I have a couple of queries.

In the first instance, we have heard of the broadening of the tax base. I appreciate, bcause of what we call the pensions ticking timebomb and all that that is, why a person of expertise and knowledge in this field would use the term “broadening the tax base” but I have to look at it then the other way, from the point of view of business. I hear many people talking about small and big business, but everything is relative. Whether one is small or big; if one is big, the problems are compounded more and one still does not have any magic mechanism to shelter oneself from the challenges a large business would have, no more than a small business, except that in a smaller business, pro rata, one does not have any big defence mechanism to protect oneself from the trials and tribulations of running that business. Business at present is difficult. The witnesses do not need me to give them an explanation as to how difficult it is but at the same time, my job as a Deputy is to represent people. In effect, the Chairperson has often heard me say that a Deputy is a messenger of the people.

The message I wish to deliver to the committee today is an example, which is a very short, sharp one, of how truly difficult it is. I feel very free to give these statistics because they are my own. When I do this, I have to declare an interest in what I am talking about quite simply because I am a small employer and provide employment to a good number of people in a number of different fields of life. I will give one example.

In a small service station with a shop on the side of the road, the energy bill would have been €1,500 or €2,000 maximum every through two months. The most recent bill I received was for €12,300. The income going into that shop is not any more than it ever would have been. There are still approximately 17 people making a living out of that business. That business is in a very precarious position at the moment and I cannot deny that. When I am telling that story, which is my story, I am also telling the story of my friends and neighbours who run the same type and style of business, where they are not relying upon what I would call an exorbitant amount of energy. The model of some of the people with whom I would be dealing would be exactly the same as mine. They might employ 15 to 20 people in that size of a business and the bill would have been approximately €2,000 and has now gone over €12,000. How is that supposed to be sustainable?

In case anybody thinks I am not acknowledging the work that was done by the Government with regard to the energy credit scheme; I thank the Government for it, acknowledge their work on it and I appreciate it. Its meaning in reality is minuscule to the people involved. The headlines sound great but it is not actually great when one is trying to apply for it and see what it is going to actually mean to you. That is just an example of how bad things really are on the ground.

With regard to the foreign investment into this country, to my colleagues in opposition who they know I am not a critic of, the exact opposite is the case, in fact. I find in many of these cases I would have the same concerns they would have with respect to the positive sides of their opposing positions to the Government. I would, however, have concerns about the Opposition’s reputation when it comes to foreign direct investment. I do not want to see a situation where we will take measures in this country, whether it is to do with the preferential tax rate or whether it is making it unattractive for those people to retain and enhance the jobs that they have here. I believe we have been served well by the fact that we have been so attractive to foreign investment and that people have seen fit to bring their much-needed and wanted jobs here. Anything we do in the future should be to try and keep that as a cornerstone of business in Ireland and to continue to attract those jobs because they mean so much in every different sphere of life to this country.

I turn to access to credit. Restructuring debt, no matter what a person does, still leaves debt. If the costs, such as those I have outlined, are going through the roof, it puts an unbearable strain on business. Before the meeting started, a small employer was on the phone to me. Obviously, I will not say his name. I will not even say whether he was from County Kerry or not. Let us put it this way; he is in the Republic, runs a small business and has 11 employees. He is dealing with AIB, which I name for a simple reason. I know we are not supposed to name individual organisations, but when I see the signs that state "We're backing brave", I would love to go into every bank, tear the signs down, take them outside the door and put them into the rubbish bin because they are not backing brave; they are backing nobody. There was a time when a person could go to his or her local bank to access credit and get direct access to funds. Unless I am living on a different planet, that is what a bank is meant to be. It takes money from one person, puts it into an investment and gives it out to somebody else. That is what makes the world tick and the world go around. Unfortunately, at present, it does not matter if you are a young person looking for a mortgage or an established person with a business, never mind if you are - God help you from all harm - a new business person trying to start off. If people go to AIB or any other bank looking for a loan, they will see how they get on. I can guarantee they will not be welcome. I am not criticising individuals working in the banks. The system has gone wrong. It is the fact that the bank manager or chairperson seems to have no more say than Tom the cat in running the bank because it is a case of having to refer things to Dublin. There was a time when people could go into a bank and the boss was the manager. If they could convince the manager that they were a good punt to take a risk on and if he or she believed in them, my goodness, that was it. They had that person to canvas, to cajole, to try to get him or her to come around, and then to earn their own reputation by working hard and paying their debts, thereby getting a track record behind them. Now, if they go into a bank with a track record as good as the Virgin Mary, staff still will not listen to them or want to give them a loan. What exactly does a person have to do now to get credit? As far as I can see, it is like the three-card trick; now you see it, now you do not. The signs "We're backing brave" are totally misleading and erroneous and, quite simply, not true.