Ms Elisabeth Ryan:

In terms of the producers' licence, in 2018 there was a licence brought in which we welcomed at the time. There was massive support for it. There is big support for Irish craft brewers because of their community roots. I suppose they have an ethos that even works against criticism from the anti-alcohol lobby, etc., because it is about the story, it is about the community and it is a different kind of affair.

In any event, the current licence is restricted to work from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. and has to work on a ticketed system. If one wants to have anybody on one's premises, for example, a work group, an evening group, maybe a small wedding or some kind of ceremony where somebody wants to have a drink, there is really no issue with that licence. It is not really very useful. It is not working terribly well for people. It does not work terribly well after 7 p.m.

Overall, our massive issue is that if one is a manufacturer of beer, one should be able to sell one's own beer on one's premises. There may be a significant distinction between on-sales and off-sales in terms of how that is managed, and we do not want an unfair advantage in any way, shape or form. I suppose our overarching opinion would be that a bar licence should be easy to get for all premises which would mean that is how a microbrewery could operate. There is a distinct difference between having a bar licence and operating a type of bar in one's premises that means one is able to pour a pint of one's own lager or beer on the premises and serve it to somebody after a tour. While we welcomed the particular licence that is in place, there are an awful lot of hoops to jump through to get it. It costs theoretically €500. In fact, it costs €10,000 to €12,000 by the time one has hired legal people to do all the various bits and pieces. We want a situation where somebody can go to a brewery, say "That is a lovely brewery", and buy a small case of beer and bring it home.

That does not seem like a lot to ask when compared with examples in other countries.