Dr. Martin Mansergh:

Yes, I heard that from the Carrick-on-Suir end. One lesson of the Good Friday Agreement which is relevant to future developments is that it was inclusive, as far as possible. As the Chairman said, all parties or all communities got round the table. There were one or two exceptions, such as Bob McCartney and Ian Paisley, but in general Northern Ireland was well represented round the table. In any process that leads to constitutional change, whatever preliminary steps are made by different groups or people, if it is going anywhere it has to end up the same way, in a full-scale, all-party, negotiation involving the two governments. I was once asked to give a talk to some Young Unionists - now the Ulster Young Unionists - visiting Dublin at least 20 years ago. I chose the topic of Irish identity and demonstrated that from the late 17th century through to the present, in every generation there was a different conception of Irish identity. Young Ireland was different from the United Irishmen and they were different from the Fenians. The Irish-Irelanders were something again and so forth. One can go through it systematically. There was a period when the Protestant elite considered they were the Irish nation. Jonah Barrington wrote Rise and Fall of the Irish Nationabout the fall Grattan's Parliament. Of course, they were the only people who had political rights.

Regarding the institutions being down and back, this is one area in which I have great faith in the British Government. A single thread that I have observed going through its policy over the past 30 or 40 years is that it is absolutely determined to restore devolution any time it is down. It can be down for all sorts of reasons and it is not always just one party or community. I think one can absolutely take it that the British Government's thirst for having Northern Ireland at a certain degree of arm's length has not in any way slackened. Anyone who thinks they can boycott it and then they will be left to live a comfortable political life will not be able to do so. Even the current Secretary of State and so on, Brexiteers though they may be, have been putting pressure on the DUP and will continue to do so regardless of what is agreed or not agreed on the protocol.

With regard to presidential polling rights, I suspect the reason there may be some delay or hesitation in government is that - I understand this is the case but I have not followed it closely myself - opinion polls in this jurisdiction show a rather negative trend of public opinion. It depends how it would be extended but if the franchise was extended, it would not only be to the North but to Britain, America and so on. I think that hesitation would be based on the argument that, as regards the number of people voting and on a simple one-to-one basis, there would be far more electors outside of the Republic of Ireland than inside it, yet the functions of the President would have to be related to the Republic, constitutionally at any rate. I think there are problems there, although weighted electorates can sometimes be used as a way around that problem.

With regard to the legacy issues, unfortunately, I think the only constituency the British Government is interested in are the folks who live in the south of England who have connections to people who were involved in controversial actions at the time of the Troubles. There is not much indication, I am afraid, that there is any great interest in the views of anyone in Northern Ireland. I cannot help reflecting - I am not saying the two situations can be compared because they cannot be - on what happened in the early 1920s after the Civil War was over. So many crimes had been committed on all sides, the State included, that after about 1924, there was a kind of general amnesty and nothing further was done. That cannot be done, however. People have the democratic right to pursue justice and here and there they may be successful, although the chances of success are not very high.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for arranging this session. I apologise for a characteristic which I think he criticised me for when I was in the Houses. I do have a tendency to be a little garrulous.