Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

It might be interesting for us to see the underpinning research. If we are basing this on college participation, we are expecting people to have at least a level 8 qualification at the age of 23. If we are speaking about the volatility of people in that demographic, many will end up with an occupational pension as opposed to an auto-enrolment pension. I am concerned for people who go straight from school into something that is physically demanding. The committee has had discussions on whether it is reasonable for people in physically demanding roles, who might be in lower income thresholds throughout their working lives, to work into their late 60s. I certainly understand the logic and I ask for the underpinning research to be shared. The fact that people can opt in answers the central concern I have.

The language used with regard to State organisations being at the heart of the pension scheme is something that ICTU raised with us last week. It is something that people are happy to see. I am happy to see the State very centrally involved in the decisions that will be made on the pension rather than having a completely privatised model. Something the committee will probably take up again and again, and I know Deputy Ó Cuív has spoken about it a lot, is that we will generate a very large pot of money through this. It will be put in by the Irish State, Irish workers and Irish employers. We should have an interest in and view on how the money will be spent for the benefit of the State. This is about how we structure the default offer in particular. We know that many people will end up defaulting to whatever they are put on and remain there rather than look at various investment choices. This will probably be the case for the vast preponderance of people.

It is essential that we reflect some of the values of our society in how we construct the default model. Deputy Ó Cuív has a concern about a lot of the money being invested outside of the State. I have a lot of concern about the ethical framework that will underpin these investments. Will we invest in fossil fuels, for example? Will it be put to use in the economy, either in afforestation or long-term leasing and rentals? We see a lot of pension pots invested in this way. Will Mr. Duggan tell me about our thinking on the default pension? What will the investment profile look like? Is there a possibility for us to reflect some of the ethical underpinning of the State in terms of where the investment goes? The flip side of this is whether we are sure it is sufficiently safeguarded against future raids by the State. It will become a large pot of money and will become very attractive to the State in the case that we hit a rainy day.