Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the representatives of the commission for coming in. Sometimes there is an advantage to being last. I will cut straight to the chase because this has been a bugbear of mine since the Minister rang me regarding the closure. I will specifically use the example of Owenacurra because I am from Midleton and that is the local centre.

This is my first question and I will be blunt. I have feeling about this, but has the commission come under pressure from other entities for exposing the failures of the HSE? Mr. Farrelly mentioned Cork. He did not mention a scale but I will ask him on to answer on a scale. How bad are the services in the whole of Cork on a scale of one to ten, ten being the best and one being the worst?

I met recently with the residents. I will quote the following question:

I know that the Owenacurra families and others have written to you and asked you to address the HSE's misuse of your reports to justify the closure and the commission refused to do so. Why did you not correct the record and why did the commission allow the HSE to give an impression that they had your independent backing for this closure?

The reason I ask the question is that I have had numerous conversations with the HSE. The HSE is the proprietor. It is the landlord with responsibility for the upkeep. The Mental Health Commission's job is like the foreman or snagger who comes in to make sure everything is done right.

The commission's job is like that of the foreman, which is to make sure everything is done right. I have copies of records. There are more than 600 signatures from families. The HSE never spent money there. The problem is families are now being put into the old lunatic asylum in Sarsfield's Court, which is not an integrated setting. Why can the HSE use the commission's reports as a reason for closing the centre when the reports are supposed to make recommendations to bring the buildings up to standard? There seems to be a massive gap and there seems to be no oversight. I approached the HSE about this matter and could not get results. I must say the HSE is an absolute disgrace. I am not referring to the front-line care workers. The senior management are an absolute disgrace. I eventually had to go to the European Ombudsman about it. It responded and told me that the matter is not within its remit and recommended that I contact HIQA. I went to HIQA and was told it has nothing to do with mental health, and to approach the Mental Health Commission. I used a few choice words when I was told that. There is zero oversight around this.

We are dealing with services and real people. I meet these people every Saturday. I do not meet as many of them now because I think there are only six left. There was a fully integrated system that worked. The Garda station is beside the centre, the dentist is across the road, the doctor is on the other side, the community hospital, the market and the SuperValu centre is there and it is about 50 yd from the town. People will be taken out of the accommodation and put into Sarsfield's Court or above in Cork. They are going to be locked out for the day and wandering around the city. What is being done here is a cruelty to the most vulnerable human beings.

I have two more questions. Does the Mental Health Commission have an oversight role in this? On the commission's recommendations, it is true the building is crap, but that is not the commission's fault or that of the residents. It is the HSE's fault. Does the commission have the power to say its remit is to ensure the best possible services are provided for the most vulnerable in this country? Can it tell the HSE it has failed in its responsibility to maintain this premises and others? Does it have the power to say it is not acceptable? According to HSE spin, the Mental Health Commission is responsible for the Owenacurra centre's closure because it said it was not fit for purpose. Why has the commission not come back to say that, while it said the centre was not fit for purpose, it made recommendations in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and three times in 2021 that the problems needed to be fixed but the HSE did not do it? Why does the commission not have the gumption to take the HSE to court? I know what the witnesses have said about restrictions and whatever. If the Mental Health Commission is an oversight body - and we do not have oversight within the HSE - why can we not set an example? The Owenacurra centre is personal to me. It should have been a pilot project that should have been replicated throughout the country. It was a fully integrated service and the residents were happy there. Now, I am listening to family members who are crying. I could go on and on. Is the Mental Health Commission being put under pressure for exposing the HSE? How bad is the situation? Why will the Mental Health Commission not correct the HSE's misinformation - I would like to use another word - that the Owenacurra centre has to be closed because the building is not fit for purpose? The commission did not recommend that the centre be closed; it said it was not fit for purpose. How can those records be corrected? I know there is a lot in what I have said.