Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for coming in and for their presentation. Yesterday we saw the opening of the global summit on biodiversity. It is probably worth reminding ourselves of what the UN Secretary General said in that our land, water and air are being poisoned by chemicals and choked by plastics. We all know our planet is burning, one third of all land is degraded which makes it harder to feed our people and thousands of species are at risk. No one can doubt the seriousness of the challenges we face on the sustainability front. It may be a mixed metaphor but our achieving transformative change would be like turning an oil tanker. Legislation of this sort is needed to switch the thinking of many of those potential oil tankers, that is, the big beasts who shape the policies implemented. Thus, I welcome this move.

How many companies operating in Ireland would this apply to? Does anybody have an idea of the number? Will it be many Irish-owned companies or will it predominantly be the internationally-trading companies? I wish to have an understanding of the scale we are talking about. I was struck by the point made about small businesses trying to chase down their supply chain and identifying the potential implication of trading with any state described as a pariah or suspect on some scale. Who will be there to assist? Model clauses for contracts were mentioned but model clauses, presumably, do not alter one's liability if one is found to have been trading with people who are abusing human or environmental rights. With regard to the practicality of someone who is entering the supply chain of companies obliged by this, what assistance is likely to be there to help them make these decisions?

I ask the Law Society to address the issue of what will constitute an acceptable defence of breaches if someone fails. I imagine that as we start to get used to thinking about our supply chains in this holistic way, which is essential, there will be a steep learning curve even for companies with quite considerable reach. It will be a learning by doing, if companies do not have these systems established. How are they striking the balance of an acceptable defence?

Presumably ignorance cannot be claimed, that the person did not know or did not bother to ask. Is there a spectrum within which the practicality of enforcement will tighten over time? People not having the full systems initially might be an acceptable defence, but one would expect that acceptable defences would diminish over time. I want to get an understanding of the practicality for a business or a director as to how they might see this impacting on them over the coming period.