Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I accept that most of the members of the committee have a different view on this matter, as we have discussed at length a few times. That is why I have said I am willing to work with members to get this right and put in place additional protections. We can do that on Report Stage. Before Report Stage, I am willing to sit down with members to tease through any issues. We are working on a number of changes with different Departments that we will bring to Cabinet to strengthen the legislation.

A seasonal permit is not unique to Ireland. In fact, we are almost unique in not having one. Most other countries have such a system. There have been references to organisations that do not support such a system but to be clear, I sought guidance from the International Organization for Migration, one of the leading intergovernmental advice bodies on this issue. That organisation supports seasonal permits under the right conditions. It has expertise in this area that extends far beyond Ireland and it is not against this proposal. I am happy to tease through the issues.

There is a need for these permits in certain sectors. Deputy Stanton mentioned flower-picking and fruit-picking. Another example is agricultural contractors. A number of people spend the winter in New Zealand harvesting silage and come here in the summer, and vice versa. A number of sectors will use this scheme. We are not going to make it easy to avail of a seasonal permit. The recommendation we will bring forward on Report Stage will be to try this at first as a pilot scheme in a particular sector. We can track and monitor it to see if it works. All the protections that are in place for anybody who works in the State will be available for a seasonal worker. Those protections are available and there is no issue about strengthening their position. As the committee knows, we increased the budget of the Workplace Relations Commission in consecutive years. There is an issue as to whether it has enough staff and we will work with the commission in that regard. The commission is very committed. It is in a position to manage and track this scheme.

The big issue for us, and this is a change with which members should be happy, is that employers will have to be approved for seasonal employment permits. That means we will interrogate any applicant company and its directors to ensure they honour and respect the laws of the State. To be clear, employers will not be able to get approval easily. We will work on the scheme to ensure we can track its use.

If an agency brings in a worker, what is the State's responsibility? We are clear on that point and can copper-fasten the position on Report Stage and through regulations. The agencies will be responsible for the terms and conditions of employees and must ensure respect for the relevant law. We cannot have the situation that arises on some occasions where agencies and employers claim it is nothing to do with them. We are clear on the position and the legislation will reflect that. We want to strengthen that aspect.

Seasonal workers will have the ability to easily transfer their seasonal employment permit to another approved employer. That is key. Members across the board want to deal with the concern that a person could be tied to an employer that is not following the rules or the law. We are working to strengthen that protection.

There will be issues around terms and conditions, and wages. We will require employers to adhere to the national minimum wage. We are now on track to achieve the living wage. If accommodation is being offered, it must not come out of the wages. That is the space we are in. Our intention is to protect workers.

We think there is a need for such a permit. It is accepted internationally that there is a need for seasonal workers. We will go above and beyond to ensure employers are not abusing these arrangements. I must repeat that the majority of employers are good employers. We must ensure the legislation does not penalise good employers while ensuring we can deal with those who are not good employers, those who allow people to work in poor conditions. That is a matter we will deal with. The State has quite strong protections for its workers and they will be fully available to anybody, no matter what sector he or she is employed in.

I accept Deputy Paul Murphy's point that we do not have all the amendments we would like to have because they are not ready. We will return to these matters on Report Stage or before then to try to work with the committee. We believe this scheme is needed. I understand and accept that some committee members genuinely disagree with it and I am willing to work with them to strengthen the legislation to ensure that seasonal workers can avail of all the protections available in the State and more.

I am willing to work with the Deputy on that so that we can strengthen the position that if someone is in seasonal work, they will have all the protections of the State and more.