Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

If that is what we need to do, that is what we need to do. Not only does the policy the Deputy recommitted to appear to be missing in the document his party published today, it is not mentioned in any of his amendments. He has not brought it forward at any point in any amendment that is due to be debated in respect of the Bill. I think the reason it is not referenced relates to the fact that, in his heart of hearts, he knows that this policy would ultimately be unaffordable for the country and would tie up our national finances to the price of something we cannot predict. If he does not know that, I put it to him that he should recognise it as a risk.

I return to the point I made earlier, which is not scaremongering or trying to put fear into people. The Deputy wants more of something in retrofitting, but he is against the tax that is helping fund it, namely, carbon tax. He wants more homes to be retrofitted and he wants more investment in a lower carbon future, but he is against the tax that is helping to co-fund that investment. He voted against it on the four occasions on which I have brought it forward or increased it and, as I understand it, he is against further increases in it, although he might elaborate on that if the Chair allows. I made the point regarding the impact the Deputy’s policies would have on our economy and the need for it to borrow.

I referred a moment ago to the fact he made reference to a modest surplus in his budget document, but just because he wishes something so does not make it so. Just because he wants there to be a modest surplus in place next year does not mean there will be. I can see what his party's Deputies and Councillors throughout the country are doing at the moment, with all the groups they meet and the speeches they make in the Dáil that promise more and more spending. The reality is that money has to come from somewhere, and the taxes he proposes to pay for it will either be insufficient to pay for that increased spending or will harm our economy, damage jobs within it and reduce the ability of our economy to grow and pay for the spending he wants. That is not scaremongering; it is a legitimate political debate for the two of us to engage in, and the Deputy's interruptions will only increase my enthusiasm for making those points to him.