Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for their contributions. The point I was attempting to make yesterday was that I felt there was a lack of balance from the Deputies in the contributions they made in not giving some recognition to the positive role that section 481 has played in the growth of the film and audiovisual sector in Ireland and to a lot of the recent developments that have taken place. I appreciate that the matters both Deputies are raising are important and serious and that they merit discussion in the context of the Finance Bill and further work from the Department of Finance. I would say to them that there are other developments that are under way that are positive and making a difference. However, more work needs to be done.

I acknowledge the positive and important developments that have taken place. I am sure the Deputies are aware of the new construction crew agreement that was reached in July of this year. I understand that this encompasses up to 300 workers in the independent film and television construction sector and includes some of the workers who both Deputies have referenced, including: carpenters; plasterers; painters; riggers; and stage-hands. This is an agreement that provides for: increased hourly pay rates; overtime rates; a guaranteed working week; dispute procedures; and various other industrial relations and employment provisions. Other measures that are included in this are the extension of coverage for pensions, sick leave and other benefits to industry construction workers under the construction workers' pension scheme. This is an agreement that has also led to a new joint monitoring structure to help ensure the agreement is appropriately implemented. This is the second agreement of its kind that has been brokered within the sector we are discussing and follows on from the crew agreement that was introduced in January 2021. That agreement modernised the practices that went before. It also has a monitoring structure to oversee it and within the agreement there is a commitment to develop a work-life balance policy for the film and television industry.

I fully accept that the issues that are being raised with the Deputies by individual members of the sector are being raised by a number of people. We are following the hearings that are happening here and have followed the long-standing interest of both Deputies, particularly Deputy Boyd Barrett, in this matter, over many years. These developments are trying to respond to the issues that are being raised on working standards in the sector and the need for progress to be made on important matters of pay, overtime rates and the kind of issues that really matter. I differ from the analysis that has been offered by the Deputies in the following ways. In particular when I hear Deputy Boyd Barrett talk about the need for contracts of indefinite duration, it is difficult to see how such contracts are consistent with a sector that is fundamentally a project-by-project one and one in which your employer changes from film to film and from cartoon to cartoon. That is a key issue.

We have a sector where, as I understand it, your employer and the project you are on vary a lot. The DAC structure is a reflection of the fact that employment tends to be provided on a project-by-project basis.

It is not clear to me how some of the expectations Deputy Boyd Barrett has can be delivered in the context of a sector in which a person's employer varies a lot because the production varies and changes a lot as well. In any event, it seems that the only way in which we can make progress on issues like this is through making sure the kinds of collective agreements that have already been reached within the sector work, and then broaden them out for more workers within the sector to be able to participate.

I am in possession of a letter that was sent to the Chairperson of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight, Deputy Hourigan, from Screen Producers Ireland, which states:

Irish actors' Equity unilaterally exited from a 2021 agreement in April of 2021. Screen Producers Ireland have endeavoured to engage with Irish actors' Equity with a view to entering into negotiations so that issues which have arisen can be resolved. We have been in contact with the WRC, which has invited Irish Equity to the table but so far, they have declined to engage. Screen Producers Ireland is fully committed to compliance with the EU copyright directive and the Irish regulators implementing them but can only do so through negotiated collective bargaining agreements.

I have no doubt at all that there is another side to the story, which I am sure the Deputy will give to me in a moment. The point I will still stand over, however, is that the issues and matters of the workers raised by the Deputy need to be addressed. The way in which progress can be made on them is through implementing the collective agreements that have been negotiated, broadening them out and putting more in place. These are industrial relations issues that need to be dealt with through industrial relations fora.

I appreciate the point Deputy Ó Murchú made when he recognised the limitations in tax policy in dealing with these issues. I still accept that when we are having a discussion about a tax relief, however, it is entirely legitimate that the kinds of issues raised by both Deputies should be aired here.

Deputy Ó Murchú also made that point that there needs to be an audit and investigation into these matters. My understanding is that the Workplace Relations Commission did an audit of the sector in 2020 and as I mentioned last night, did not recommend a change in the designated activity company, DAC, structure or the section 481 relief that is in place. It recommended the kind of approach to which I am referring here, however, which is the implementation of collective agreements, where they are in place, or the introduction of new collective agreements where they are not in place. I support those recommendations. I hope the recent progress that has been made across 2021 and 2022 can be built upon.

In terms of the further engagement that will happen, my Department recently met with representatives from Screen Guilds of Ireland and SIPTU. We would like to meet Equity and the Irish Film Workers Association, IFWA, again, and we will do so, to continue our engagement on these issues.

Even though we just published a pretty lengthy and thorough evaluation of section 481, I really care about what happens within this sector. The three of us are united in our agreement that what that sector produces is often wonderful. We should all be proud of the people who work in the sector whether they are producers, stagehands or actors. We should want to see everybody involved in the sector have the opportunity to earn a decent living. As I said, however, this sector appears to me to be more project-based and because it is film-based or television series-based, it means that employment within the sector reflects the fact that it is project by project and film by film. The way in which the kinds of issues that flow from that kind of employment can be dealt with is through industrial relations and procedures rather than through the tax code. The tax code is only one part of section 481 from which we have published a survey.

I will conclude with two really specific matters that were raised, the first of which were the allegations to which Deputy Boyd Barrett referred. Let me say to the committee that if the Deputy is raising these allegations, I am confident that he has evidence that he believes merits the claims he is making. Deputy Boyd Barrett shared views regarding people being sacked because they raised concerns about the safety of the work environment. I am sure there are State bodies that should be investigating and getting to the bottom of the claims to which the Deputy referred. I hope the issues to which he referred have been shared with them. Safety in the workplace should be a fundamental duty for those who are involved in the production of these films. I am sure it is and I hope it is. However, the Deputy raised a very serious allegation I have not heard before. I accept his right to raise it. I am sure he raised it based on evidence he accepts. That is a matter that clearly merits investigation by the State bodies that are involved in work safety, however. I hope the issues he raised have been shared with them.

Deputy Ó Murchú made a point about the shortage of experienced staff. It shows the importance of the work I tried to reference last night about training days and what needs to happen to build up the skills and qualifications of those who are involved in the sector. It emphasises to me that this is work that needs to continue in order that we have more and more experienced people involved in delivering work we all agree is of great value to our society and economy.