Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Coming from the dismal science, as they say, economists know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Essentially, the witnesses want to make a business case for more assistance from the Government. Can they provide the committee with the percentage of costs that electricity constitutes in various of their member businesses? I presume a fishmonger in Howth will have a higher energy cost than some of the other retail outlets, such as clothing outlets. That would give us a notion of where the pinch points are.

On the issue of sick pay and auto-enrolment, there is no doubt they will bring additional costs but the approach of the Government has been to try to phase them in over a period. Are the witnesses arguing for a slower phasing in? What would that mean in terms of it starting at three days and then moving steadily to ten days? In general, what are average wages among their members as compared with the living wage that is being spoken of? What is the gap or increase in payroll in that regard? That information will help to give the committee a handle on some of the changes that are coming through. As all present have acknowledged, the lessons of Covid have been that some lower-paid people played a strategic role. We want to have better protection in some of these areas because they are so important. Clearly, we have to strike a balance in the way that is done.

I am not sure I share Mr. Moran's optimism that these energy prices are temporary. I do not take the view that 100% support from the Government is a credible or feasible approach. How much of his unit power did he reduce with an aggressive retrofitting programme? Could the Government be more aggressive in supporting such retrofitting? It does not just tide a business over for this year; it provides a permanent improvement in the long term, not to mention its impact on climate. How far could we go with in that regard by aggressively going after businesses, particularly those such as fishmongers rather than clothing outlets?