Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The scenario on my mind relates to a company that is a big employer in Ireland and that may be part of a global multinational company. Because of the change in energy prices in Ireland, it may become less profitable than it has been but it is still being profitable and, because of this, it runs the risk of affecting jobs in Ireland. That could happen. A company could be profitable but because it is less profitable than it has been due to a rise in energy prices, that may affect workers. That is a real possibility for employers in Ireland. In that situation, I do not want people, our fellow citizens who work for those companies, to lose their jobs or to have their income affected.

As to the Deputy’s point regarding large companies, what if a company that is large but unprofitable becomes even more unprofitable due to the rise in energy prices and, therefore, reduces the numbers of people it employs? A company can have a large turnover be unprofitable, be a big employer and, because of the scenario that we are in, it can need help. We are willing to offer that help because we want the jobs to be kept. I understand where the Deputy is coming from when he asks if a company is profitable, why it needs the support of the taxpayer, I understand that, but we are moving into a scenario whereby companies will either be a lot less profitable than they have been or they will potentially still have a big turnover in value terms but will make a loss. In the economic conditions that we are in, that could result in job losses. That is only for big companies.

Small and medium sized companies - although in fairness to the Deputy he was not talking about them - are facing real difficulties across this period and this scheme will help with that but larger companies tend to be larger employers and the maintenance of that employment in the challenging period that we are now in is something that the State has to play a role in. That is why TBESS does not look at what is happening to turnover or to profitability; it is all about the energy cost change. All of that being said, I imagine that large energy users like data centres will have minimal participation in the scheme because of the cap. There is a cap of €10,000 in place in this scheme, as well as €30,000 for multiple connection points, because we need to have a cap on the funding the scheme makes available to companies. An alternative scheme will be made available through the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to which data centres will be able to apply. Big energy users that are big companies and that may still be profitable will apply for it and I imagine they will receive its support. That is because they are employers.

The point that I would ask the Deputy to consider is that a big company that may have been profitable in the past could now be making losses and could employ many people in Ireland. It might be an Irish company and it might not be a big global name. There may also be companies that have become far less profitable due to the rise in energy prices and because of that they can make decisions about the people they are employing and how they are employing them. I do not want to see that happen. Other countries are acting to try to prevent those scenarios from developing and that is why I believe a scheme like this has a role to play.

As for data centres, we have a fundamentally different view on them. I do not think data centres will receive much support at all from this scheme because of the cap. I accept that they have energy impacts that we need to better plan for and to be in a better position to accommodate, but they are a fundamental part of how employment is maintained in Ireland by big employers that are international in nature. I will not name companies because it would not be appropriate for me to do so but most of the data centres that the Deputy may raise with me are also associated with firms that are large employers in our country. I am concerned about the narrative and the case that some are making about data centres when they argue that they are more of a cost than a contribution. There may be energy consequences that we have to better accommodate and plan for in the future, but they are essential in the proposition that Ireland has developed to play its part and keep jobs in a global economy that is becoming rapidly digitised. That is why those data centres matter but they will have limited involvement in this scheme.