Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I stand by the point I have made. I know that this is subject to a ruling by the German Supreme Court. I stand by the point that I have made, which is that for the period in which a rent freeze was in operation in Berlin, the number of new rental properties that were available to rent fell. I stand by that point. Independent studies of what has happened in Berlin have shown that. That is the case I am making to the Deputy. It is relevant in assessing what the impact of such a measure here in Ireland would be.

In relation to the other points that the Deputy Doherty has put to me, I put it to him that he and his party have demonised landlords in the language and the tone they use in describing landlords. On one hand, the Deputy says that he wants more rental accommodation and on the other hand he does not have a good word to say about anybody who is providing it. The measures that he is proposing over time will lead to less rental accommodation being available, which will lead to rents going up. That is the case I make to the Deputy.

He asks again why I have brought this measure in when I have not done so in the past, and I have already answered that question. The situation has gotten worse because of the number of landlords that have left, as well as because of the general rise in inflation that has made things worse for everybody, and particularly for tenants. That is why I believe that this measure is now needed. Are there risks with it? Yes, there are. Yet, because of the changed circumstances that we are now in, I believe that it is merited, needed and will make a difference.

In relation to the question that the Deputy has put to me regarding the number of people who will benefit from it, it is not “guestimates”, which was the word he used. I will lay out the rationale that I accepted in putting forward the costs for this measure. The CSO estimate is that there are now 613,000 people in rented accommodation, excluding social housing tenants. The source for this figure is the Rental Tenancies Board. CSO data shows that 75% of tenants are either employees, self employed or director income. Taking 98% of the CSO base figure for the number of tenants and subtracting the number of people that are on housing assistance payment, HAP, RAS, and approved housing bodies, AHB, tenants gives a figure of 509,000, and 75% of 509,000 is 380,000. That is roughly equivalent to the figure of 400,000 that we have used in our budget calculations. There is some extrapolation and judgment used in it, but that is not the same as it being a “guestimate” in any way.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae put a question to me regarding more rental accommodation being needed. He also put the point to me that we should be giving particular income tax recognition to landlords. I think his point was that landlords should pay a lower rate of income tax on the rent that they receive. However, a fundamental principle of our tax code is that we treat all income the same when it is being taxed. I unfortunately have no doubt at all that if we were to make a lower rate of income tax available to landlords, the expectation would build that we should do the same for tenants and for other people within our economy who are working hard to get income in tough circumstances. I do not believe that we should that. I believe it is more appropriate for us to tax all income at the same rate. To move away from that principle would undermine our ability to tax income effectively and fairly.

Deputy Boyd Barrett made the point that the local authorities should step in and acquire rental accommodation. This is happening in some cases. I accept there are huge difficulties within the rental market at the moment affecting very many. This is why the State is committing up to €4 billion per year to try to make a difference to the living conditions of the people to whom the Deputy is referring. I accept we need to do better by them, and this is why our local authorities are working so hard to deliver more homes.