Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The Irish Government has a piece of work to do on that as well. In fairness, Professor Shirlow named his son very well.

On the basis of what I heard and the synopsis, the mood music is better regarding the TCA and protocol. We do not have a crystal ball but Britain has bigger fish to fry at this point in time and Rishi Sunak is likely to be somewhat more pragmatic than previous Prime Ministers. Perhaps even Liz Truss had already pointed in that direction, whatever other issues may have arisen.

We still have difficulties. The Nationality and Borders Act was raised. We obviously have the amnesty legislation and all those other factors. We will see where the lie of the land is. Professor Phinnemore spoke about the flexibility that is required - we all gather that - and that maybe the protocol had been oversold as the best of all worlds. He went into the ins and outs and difficulties. Some of them are the difficulties of Brexit. If we just reworked and went back, we would not have those difficulties but we are where we are. We are in very changed circumstances. I think Professor Phinnemore answered regarding where most of that is.

Professor Shirlow argued that if a deal is done between the European Union and the British Government, it needs to be sold and a particular piece of work has to be done to sell it to unionism. Unionism must also be open to that. It is very good that we have all the information and can have real conversations because sometimes we have all had nonsense conversations on what our perceptions are. A lot of people vote for an awful lot of political parties without necessarily buying into all they speak about. There is probably an element of unionism that has always voted for the biggest unionist party. That does not mean they buy into the almost Christian fundamentalism of certain parts of what the DUP puts on offer. I would argue that at times, unionism has not shown great leadership.

The DUP has always been afraid of moving from its lowest common denominators. You might say, "I would say that, wouldn't I?". That is a fair point but when we are talking on the wider issues of constitutional change, and so on, and we are talking about the protocol and the majority. No matter who anyone votes for wants a deal. Nobody trusts the British Government. I can buy into that, but they want the deal to be put in place.

On the wider constitutional issue, a large number have their decision made. A huge number of people probably do not think about it much and even if they do, they are opposed, mildly opposed or in favour. We are going to have a referendum at some stage and then we will have those pieces. It is correct to say the planning has to be done and we have to be able to put on paper what the situation is.

I will throw one spanner into the works. There was mention of almost moving away from devolution. I do not want to paraphrase anyone incorrectly but let us consider what has happened in Westminster lately, with the almost weaponisation of legislation and beyond that the movement away from devolved assemblies. The big question in play is the Scottish referendum. The SNP has stated straightforwardly what it wants to see. I imagine that is a complete game changer on the situation in the North, even psychologically, for unionists and all the rest. If Scotland removes itself from the union, what is the union then? That is before I get into the arguments on how, for a lot of people, Brexit has created a circumstance where Irish unity is a solution for people where it provides a means of being in the Single Market and all the positives that are there for the EU.

I have dealt with enough issues across the board and as usual I have left people two minutes to answer them in a comprehensive manner. I appreciate the interaction. It has been great and I apologise for having to leave earlier, although I think I have made up for it.