Mr. Leo Kearns:

The Deputy is absolutely right. Covid was an example of everybody being focused with a shared purpose. That went way beyond the call of duty and great credit is due to them. Difficult and challenging as it was, that was one issue. What we are talking about here is much more complex. The Deputy is absolutely right when he talks about leadership. When making big change like this, it comes down to leadership. Leadership is essentially to what degree do people at the front line and at every level within the HSE and the Department believe in leadership and the direction in which we are moving. That is a challenge. We definitely need to see leadership within the RHAs and we need leadership in the centre and in the Department. Having that leadership is what makes the change happen. People start to believe that this will happen and it is the right way to go.